massage in first tri mester?

A forum focusing on discussion of injuries, illnesses, pathologies and procedures in alleviating, relieving and/or referring.

Moderators: GreenDragonfly, Talenyn

massage in first tri mester?

Postby lovely_day on Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:31 pm

To those of you who do pre-natal massage, do you massage in the first trimester? If so, do you require a MD script to do so? Just setting a policy in place and would like anyone's opinions on how they were trained in any school or workshop regarding massage in first trimester. Thank you.
lovely_day
Registered Member
 
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:26 am
Location: Wisconsin

Postby nybor7 on Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:15 pm

I may get flack for this....oh well.
I do pregnancy massage but only after the first tri.
I do this for very different reasons than you all might think.
I have had misscarriages. You scrutinize EVERYTHING you did, ate, drank, smelled, thought etc.....

I never want to put a mom who may have a miss for unkown reasons ever wonder if the massage I afforded her caused her misscarriage. And my reason there isn't the liability...it's the making her feel that she may have done something wrong.

Working in the healthcare field and having had the miss's I cannot swear on a stack of bibles that massages doesn't cause or bring on a misscarriage.

Yes, I admit, most of this is my baggage...but that;s how I feel.

Robyn
r e l a x - South Carolina
User avatar
nybor7
Registered Member
 
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:30 am
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC

Postby sewme73 on Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:04 pm

I have to agree. I do pre-natal massage only after the first tri-mester has been reached. We have all studied how massage flushes toxins from the body and until then the body considers the unborn fetus a foreign object or toxin so to speak.

I too have suffered a mis-carriage and would not want to put undue stress on the mom to be.
sewme73
Fresh Hands
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:09 pm
Location: atlanta

massage in first trimester

Postby lovely_day on Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:35 am

Thank you for your heart-felt replies. I turned away a mom-to-be, for a massage. As we were going into the massage room, the client chirped," Oh, by the way I'm 5 weeks pregnant." I sat down with her and questioned her about her OB> history. She had a miscarriage with her previous preg. and she had not seen her OB. yet. I had to turn her away and she was very disappointed.
We did learn in school not to massage in the first trimester, but I find this varies from therapist to therapist. Anyone else care to comment?
lovely_day
Registered Member
 
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:26 am
Location: Wisconsin

Postby Masthera on Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:58 am

When I was pregnant before having my m/c, I begged my MT to work on me. We discussed that I wouldn't blame her for anything and that my mental and physical state would suffer too much from not having the massages for 3 months. I did end up with a m/c, but I know that it was not caused by anything that I or anyone else did.

Personally for me, if the person is someone that I know and trust, I will work on them in the first trimester.
I will explain everything to them and will work with them once I feel comfortable that they understand about possible complications that are most likely not caused from getting massage.

I will not accept a new prenatal client until they are past the first trimester.
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal."
- Henry Ford
Masthera
Retired Site Admin
 
Posts: 2395
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:57 am
Location: Maryland

Postby HappyBug on Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:58 pm

I would not even work on them if i knew them. My cousin was in for a massage last month. Not knowing at the time she was PG and miscarried THAT night after recieving a massge from me. I asked her specifically if she could be PG and all the other usual intake ?'s. No, on the PG. Found out from my mom that my cousin thought that she might/could be PG at that time but had not gone in for testing. She is 42 years old and has never had children. I can't help but think it helped contribute to the miscarriage.

I know she told me no when asked but if she had just said that maybe they thought she might be, I would NOT have done the massage.

I do massage PG women after the first trimester and require a written ok from DR. I also have a special PG release form that explains all things that could go wrong with massage and PG and they have to sign it. It's the same form that we used at the hospital I worked at in the massage department.

My cousins miscarriage will always "haunt" me.

Diane
If you've gotten to the door, you shouldn't doubt you can open it.
HappyBug
Registered Member
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 8:04 pm
Location: Washington

Postby moogie on Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:07 pm

Diane, please know that there is absolutely nothing that you might have done that contributed to your cousin's miscarriage.

As someone in your cousin's age group (I'm 43) who has been trying to conceive for over 3 yrs now and who has had 3 miscarriages this year alone I can assure you that you did nothing wrong. At our age (the medical community considers pregnancy at our age to be almost "geriatric") the odds of miscarriage are astronomical. Generally speaking due to our "advanced age" around 90% of our eggs are abnormal or in some way genetically unsound. This is the reason for most of the losses in our age group.

I've consulted with my OB (who specializes in high risk pregnancies) and she has stated that there is absolutely no reason to abstain from massage at any time in your pregnancy unless there are other problems occuring. Obviously if someone is spotting or cramping or have other signs of miscarriage the best thing is to err on the side of caution and avoid over stimulating their systems.

I've received massages in my 1st trimester and even though I suffered a loss each time, I know through testing that each of my losses were due to genetics and had nothing to do with receiving a massage.

If someone has a sound pregnancy as long as we are following proper guidelines for working with pregnant women, there really isn't anything we can do to cause a miscarriage.

That said I could see how someone who has suffered such an emotional loss could try to place blame on something they did or had done to them. But, there is absolutely no medical evidence to support that by properly giving someone a massage we could do harm to their pregnancy.

Diane please believe me.....you did not cause you cousin to have this loss.

Angie
User avatar
moogie
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3191
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:16 am
Location: Tampa, FL

massage in first trimester

Postby lovely_day on Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:28 pm

Happy bug: Could you tell me exactly what the wording is on your pre-natal consent form you use at the hospital?
lovely_day
Registered Member
 
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:26 am
Location: Wisconsin

Postby Masthera on Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:57 am

Diane please believe me.....you did not cause your cousin to have this loss.


I agree with everything that Angie has said! Please don't let this "haunt" you. You had no way of knowing and you did nothing to cause the m/c.

If someone has a sound pregnancy as long as we are following proper guidelines for working with pregnant women, there really isn't anything we can do to cause a miscarriage.

Very well said.
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal."
- Henry Ford
Masthera
Retired Site Admin
 
Posts: 2395
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:57 am
Location: Maryland

Postby ib1gypsy on Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:30 pm

I don't specialize in prenatal massage, but had the good fortune to be in school with quite a number of pregnant ladies who were worked on regularly in the first trimester when they weren't tossing their cookies :oops: due to morning sickness. Also had a regular in clinic who was carrying triplets who came beginning about week 6. It was too fun to work with her and she definitely needed and very much appreciated the work. heh... with all the pregnant gals in class, meridian points to avoid during pregnancy are branded into my brain forever. :)
ib1gypsy
Fresh Hands
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:54 pm
Location: Idaho

Postby fudja / aka Greatlakes on Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:27 am

Glad this post was up.

One of my regular clients, female, 34 years old, 90 minutes every two weeks, informed me she is trying to have another baby. It would be number 3. Her previous 2 were normal pregnancies.

I told her about the first tri thing, and mainly because of the liability. I told her I would work on her if her gyno wrote a script for the first month. She understands. She doesnt want to go without massage!! Plus, she knows she will need it more than ever once she is pregnant.

There are only 3 people in the world who know her and her husband want to have another baby, her, her husband, and me!! I see other members of her family, and assured her I wouldnt let the word leak out.

I feel massage in the first tri is like anything else the mother does, if she did it on a regular basis before the pregnancy, there shouldnt be a problem during the pregnancy.
Last edited by fudja / aka Greatlakes on Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
fudja / aka Greatlakes
Registered Member
 
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:51 pm
Location: Name additive above for clarity of deleted posts.

Postby Caoimhan on Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:43 am

Could someone explain how massage (swedish relaxation) is a risk to a 1st trimester fetus?

So long as the abdomen isn't massaged, I can't see there being any physical risk (such as causing a detatchment of the endometrium).

Is it biochemical? Is there an alteration of hormone levels that results from massage?
~Kevin~
Anatomy Student
Energy Worker
Future Massage/Touch Therapist
Future Holistic Health Practitioner
Caoimhan
Registered Member
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:59 pm
Location: SoCal

Postby fudja / aka Greatlakes on Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:49 am

In school, they taught us that it is more of a liability issue. They miscarry and blame it on the massage. Sue happy people and all. Most miscarries happen in the first tri.

I know there are different schools of thought on massage releasing toxins too. Some dont believe it at all.

Christine
fudja / aka Greatlakes
Registered Member
 
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:51 pm
Location: Name additive above for clarity of deleted posts.

Postby AnastasiaB on Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:24 pm

Caimohan,

I was taught in school that with high risk pregnancies, or as one instructor termed them, "delicate pregnancies" the risk of "triggering" contractions prematurely comes from working around the reflexive points on the medial aspect of the heels/ankles and the webbing of the thumbs. Cannot say that that has been an issue in my practice, but, according to the instructors in school, back in the day, that was the reasoning for avoiding working w/ women at high risk during the first trimester and near their due dates.


fwiw
J
Anastasia B

Be who you are and say what you feel, because people who mind don't matter, and people who matter don't mind. - Theodore S. Geisel - [Dr. Seuss][

www.mymassageworks.embarqspace.com
User avatar
AnastasiaB
Registered Member
 
Posts: 725
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:15 am
Location: Central Ohio

Postby moogie on Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:53 pm

Caoimhan wrote:Could someone explain how massage (swedish relaxation) is a risk to a 1st trimester fetus?



Massage is not a risk, plain and simple. The fact is though that miscarriages are a lot more common than the general public realizes. Many women will have at least one miscarriage in their life and some women have multiple losses. Almost all miscarriages happen in the 1st trimester.

If someone is having a healthy pregnancy, no amount of massaging the ankles will cause them to have a miscarriage. Our species would not have survived if pregnancy were so "brittle." How many pregnant women go home at night and have their hubbies rub their feet and legs? Do husbands know where the accupunture points are?? I think not.

It is simply a question of wanting to avoid a possible problem. Some therapists are afraid of being sued if the client miscarries. Even though there is absolutely no way to legally prove that a massage caused a miscarriage, the hassel and cost of hiring an attorney and the emotional distress would be too much for them.

For what it's worth, the school that I went to never taught us to not massage women in their 1st trimester. We were taught the proper cautions to take with pregnancy massage, even in the 1st trimester.

Also, unless a woman is actively trying to get pregnant and tests the day their period is late, most women are 6-8 weeks along before they even know their pregnant, half-way through the 1st trimester. If you have a client who gets massage regularly, chances are she got a massage before even knowing she was pregnant.

Just my :2cents:
Angie
User avatar
moogie
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3191
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:16 am
Location: Tampa, FL

Postby JulieB on Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:07 am

I have a client that I just found out is pregnant, but is not telling anyone..I found out thru a close friend. She has not told me yet that shes PG and I know that shes only about 4 weeks out. She has a massage weekly w/me..any advise on how to handle this situation?

I dont want to work on her till shes past the 1st trimester. And I cant admit that my close friend told me. Help :?:

julieb
JulieB
Fresh Hands
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 3:29 pm
Location: Warrenville, IL 60555

Postby fudja / aka Greatlakes on Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:39 am

Julie,

If you are giving this woman weekly massage, then you have worked on her 3 or 4 times since she became pregnant and everything was fine.

Assuming the rumor is true, it is obvious your client wants massage. What are your personal reasons for not wanting to work on her?

You could say something like... I have been noticing a change in your body, you seem to be retaining a bit of water here and there. Anything going on that might cause that? Are you close to menstruating?? Something like this may get her to open up.

After she does tell you, she may also tell you she wants to continue her sessions. This is what happen to my client who is trying to become pregnant. If your client wants to keep getting her regular sessions like mine does, have her get a scrip from her doctor.

I have read a lot of info about the toxin and stagnant blood myth. I truly believe it is a bunch of hooey. Have you considered you may do your client and her unborn child more harm by halting massage for about 2 months? Her body is accustom to weekly massage and now you want her to go cold turkey for at least 2 months. She may find herself a MT who will work on her in this early stage of pregnancy. And if she does, you need to wonder why someone else would do that? What do they know that I do not? Is there really a big risk? What may the other MT say to your client to put her mind at ease after you refuse to work on her? Will it make you look fearful, scared, and misinformed?
Last edited by fudja / aka Greatlakes on Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
fudja / aka Greatlakes
Registered Member
 
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:51 pm
Location: Name additive above for clarity of deleted posts.

Postby JulieB on Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:12 pm

Chirstine,

Thanks for the advise. It has just always been a rule, I suppose like everyone else, that you just dont give massage during the 1st trimester. The only thing I was worried about is possibly harming her or her baby, just from everything I have learned from school and other therapists.

I am worried that all our sessions are usually deep tissue, and I will have to say something about the changes in her body, because I will not apply deep tissue to the low back region.

I think I am worried too that shes not telling anyone and still deciding whether or not to keep the child, which troubles me..and with that I am sure she as not seen a doctor, so the whole doctors note will be almost impossible to obtain.

I dont think that I am necessarily scared of working on her, as you said, I may be causing her more harm than good by halting massage, I am really just worried about her and the safety of the baby.

Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate it.

JulieB
JulieB
Fresh Hands
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 3:29 pm
Location: Warrenville, IL 60555

Postby akb on Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:24 pm

I would work on her just as you have always known her to be. If another client is pregnant and has not told you, you would be working on them without hesitation. You are working on her and not her fetus. If she chooses not to tell you then that is her right, as well as her right to tell you that she has or has not kept the fetus. So unless you hear it from her, you are operating on the assumption that she is pregnant according to gossip. Not saying it is not true, but that it is gossip, it is not from her mouth, so treat her like you would if you had not heard it.

JulieB wrote:I think I am worried too that shes not telling anyone and still deciding whether or not to keep the child, which troubles me..


This is none of your business. But if it troubles you to know a client has purposely aborted a pregnancy and this affects your relationship/massage session then you should refer her to another MT.
akb
Registered Member
 
Posts: 973
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:53 am

Postby jeffh on Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:12 pm

It is so difficult to confidently know what to believe on this topic.
Most of us were told at school that first trimester massage is contraindicated because of the potential for harm, but our teachers were just reiterating what they where told.

Who DO you listen to?

Massage therapists, even those who specialise in teaching pregnancy massage do not have the research available to prove or disprove harm.Theory is not enough.

The average doctor would not have a clue, If asked will probably see massage as something unnecessary and have no need to endorse it.

Your average gynacologist also Knows nothing about massage and it's effects.

Seems we need Mythbusters or a research study by someone like one of the massage associations or the touch research institute.
Anecdotal evidence and theoretical supposition is not enough.
jeffh
Registered Member
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:23 pm
Location: Australia

Postby akb on Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:32 pm

Yet what mother to be is going to risk spontaneous abortion in order to help the masses know what is and is not safe as far as touch therapies go?

To me the "risk" of first trimester massage is BS. But alot of "ways to keep healthy" from the medical community is BS.
akb
Registered Member
 
Posts: 973
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:53 am

Postby jeffh on Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:39 pm

Yes I would never expect there to be for example a trial carried out on first semester women, that would be immoral.
Perhaps though a statistical analysis of activities in the week prior to miscarriage after the event against a control group would identify true risk factors rather than traditional bogeys.
The information is probably already available, but needing analysis.
jeffh
Registered Member
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:23 pm
Location: Australia

Postby Pandoras_Gift on Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:49 pm

I will never do it. To much guilt to go with the trauma and the liability if it happens.
love as always,
Muriel
User avatar
Pandoras_Gift
Registered Member
 
Posts: 1250
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:44 pm
Location: New York, Rockland County

Postby jeffh on Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:30 pm

Besides massage educators and their students, who is now propagating the proposal that massage is potentially harmful in the first trimester?

Any idea where this idea came from in the first place?

I spent a little time googling this as "miscarriage risk factors"and could not find any reference to massageas a possible cause
jeffh
Registered Member
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:23 pm
Location: Australia

Postby tropicmom on Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:45 am

jeffh wrote:Perhaps though a statistical analysis of activities in the week prior to miscarriage after the event against a control group would identify true risk factors rather than traditional bogeys.
The information is probably already available, but needing analysis.

I'll take part in this informal study. My one & only miscarriage (of 4 pregnancies) I definitely did not have massage. Did NOTHING any different than any of my other pregnancies.

I'd think that would be a huge proportion of the anwers you'd get for that study.

My vote says work on the client. She may not be pregnant. You've probably worked women who didn't know they were pregnant yet before, but you can't assume information she hasn't confirmed.
tropicmom
Registered Member
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:27 am
Location: FL

Next

Return to Injury - Illness - Pathology - Procedure

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron