Did your MT massage your glutes

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Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby Pushpm on Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:03 am

I am a newbie in Rmt massage. My MT just took care of my lower back. What is your experience?
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby pueppi on Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:05 am

In order to help with the context of your post, from What do you wear during a massage?:

Pushpm wrote:I have recently started getting massage from RMT (Female). She always ask me to undress to my comfort level and for decency sake I always leave my underwear on. She gives me a good massage on my exposed area of glutes and it really feels great. I want to have a good glute massage next time.
Should I take off my underwear which will implied that my glutes will be taken care or should I speak to her? I live in Canada.

I always have full sheet.


pueppi wrote:I would suggest you speak to your therapist directly about this.

Personally I work most of the glutes above the sheet/blanket, because I can get in deeper for the way I work. However, I am not opposed to working the glutes undraped - it is just that usually I do this when I am working swedish style (using the glute work to blend into my lower back work) or with moderate to deep strokes which are very long in nature (from the ankle to the glutes, up the back to the shoulder and then on down the arm to end at the fingers).

So, if you take your underware off without talking to your therapist, you may not get what you are requesting in this post you have made, depending on how your therapists works. She may just think you are "taking your underware off", not that you are actually wanting more of the same glute work.

A sample request: "I really liked what you did last time on my glutes. If I take my underware off for today's massage, would you be comfortable working my entire glutes? It seemed to make a real difference for me during the week that followed my massage."


Pushpm wrote:Yes. You are right. I just took off my undie this time but my MT did not massage my flutes. I phoned another MT and asked if she can take care of my glutes. She told glutes are always part of full body massage.


pueppi wrote:Is there a particular reason why you chose not to ask your MT for this work?

Glutes may always be part of some therapists massage work, but it doesn't mean this work is necessary to every massage. Are you planning on speaking with your current MT or moving to new the one you called? I am generally curious.
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby TessKB on Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:43 pm

I always work a few minutes on glutes because I feel they're left out in most massages. They can get strained as well and they need attention. It can be a little ticklish but most of my clients who have never had it done always fall in love with it afterward.

Also, I work glutes through the sheet. So the client is more comfortable.
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby softy515 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:40 pm

Sometimes an issue can be easily addressed. Like hey, can you spend extra time on my glutes?

Simple, effective. :)
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby Empathic~Heart on Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:41 am

Be direct, communicate with the therapist and ask for what you need. I do work over the sheet if undies are on, and undrape the side I'm working on if undies are off. My intake also asks specifically "what areas to you give permission to be worked on" and go by that.
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby JasonE on Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:22 pm

I work on glutes nearly every day, and sometimes I spend more time on the glutes than on anything else. They are critical to normal movement and overall health, and should be worked unless the MT has a good reason not to.
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby Skye Phillips on Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:34 pm

Empathic~Heart wrote: I do work over the sheet if undies are on, and undrape the side I'm working on if undies are off. My intake also asks specifically "what areas to you give permission to be worked on" and go by that.


That's perfect :) I keep it very professional and don't dawdle with draping or undraping in that area and just keep it neat and effecient. I just usually work on each side of them undraped because I am comfortable with that area, but yeah, if a client is wearing boxers, or panties, then I never undrape. If a woman is wearing a thong, then if I have a comfortable feeling and she trusts me, I will undrape and work on each glute..but if there is any question in my mind then I will ask for permission or just stay above the sheets. You kind of get a gut feeling with each person you massage.

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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby Mia on Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:55 pm

I can never understand this country. I was taught that pain in the gluteal and piriformis muscles are one of the major causes of lower back pain. I spend at least one third of my time working them. I got a PM from someone several weeks ago stating that where he works in your South, that they cannot do the buttocks or pectorals?!

Jason,(I think it was you) if you think your tecknique is better through the sheet, why don't you do your whole massage that way?
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby moogie on Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:19 pm

Mia wrote:I can never understand this country.


Mia please.....this is getting old. This is a very big country with an extremely diverse population. We are not all alike.

I was taught that pain in the gluteal and piriformis muscles are one of the major causes of lower back pain.


As were every therapist here. Anyone who has taken any training in therapeutic massage knows the connection between the gluteals and low back pain.

I got a PM from someone several weeks ago stating that where he works in your South, that they cannot do the buttocks or pectorals?!


This person was either lying to you or pulling your leg. There are no such laws "in the South" that restrict therapists from working either the gluts or pecs. I work in Florida, it doesn't get any further south than here.

It is pretty standard to work the gluts, either undraped or through the sheet (if the client has chosen to leave their underwear on.) That said, every therapist is unique and different and they chose how to do their massage.

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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby pear2apple on Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:03 pm

In school we weren't taught to expose the butt (in any way) and work the butt skin-to-skin. Frankly I would be a little put-off if I went to a 'relaxation massage' and the therapist exposed my butt cheeks and worked on them. I probably wouldn't return. That said, the therapist I swap with has a unique (to me anyway) way of doing my thighs and while doing so, exposes my upper thigh and has more than once I think, maybe exposed my butt cheeks. I've been going to her for months, I feel very confident in her abilities and professionalism, and now I am pretty fine with her touching my butt...skin-to-skin.

When I do massages, I never touch the butt skin-to-skin, I like my chosen method of working the glutes and I think I do a fairly good job with my limited knowledge. I've gotten several compliments from clients and teachers. I don't think you need to remove the sheet in order to do a good job, more varied techniques-yes, but a good massage- no.
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby Mia on Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:16 pm

Angie,
I PM Ed him. However I googled and found 0870-01-02 Tennessee law which states no cross gender chest massage. He told me hands width from nipple.

So it appears you may be wrong!
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby moogie on Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:23 pm

GENERAL RULES GOVERNING LICENSED MASSAGE THERAPISTS CHAPTER 0870-01
AND ESTABLISHMENTS
(Rule 0870-01-.02, continued)
June, 2009 (Revised) 5
(e) Prohibited therapeutic treatments not within the scope of practice of massage
therapists include:
1. therapeutic treatments to the anus and *Royal* canal, including, but not limited to
colonic irrigations and enemas; and
2. therapeutic cross-gender breast massage; and
3. therapeutic vaginal massage.


Actually Mia, it states "breast" massage. Breasts and chests are not the same thing. You stated that in the south, therapists were not allowed to massage buttocks or pecs. I can work a client's pecs without getting into breast tissue.

In Florida it is even allowed to massage breasts and I have received training in lymphatic massage for women who suffer from fibrous breast tissue.

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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby pueppi on Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:27 am

pear2apple wrote:Frankly I would be a little put-off if I went to a 'relaxation massage' and the therapist exposed my butt cheeks and worked on them. I probably wouldn't return.


As a side note to add depth to this thread (for any clients reading), many MT's are taught that the glutes/buttocks are not a seperate entity from the leg, but an extension of the leg.

I was taught and look at the leg in this manner: Put your finger on your belly button and then think of the leg as an extension downward from that point. Don't think of leg and buttocks. Although the buttocks have specific muscles within that area, they provide a function within the leg apparatus itself, which can of course extend into lower back issues.

When you think about it this way (if you weren't taught that), you can see how the buttocks become less of a point to be concerned about when a therapist exposes the area.

Black lines below demarcate what I am trying to explain in words. :)
Image

Moogie wrote:It is pretty standard to work the gluts, either undraped or through the sheet (if the client has chosen to leave their underwear on.) That said, every therapist is unique and different and they chose how to do their massage.


Moogie, where is the "like" button when I need it? :)
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby pear2apple on Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:46 am

pueppi wrote:
pear2apple wrote:Frankly I would be a little put-off if I went to a 'relaxation massage' and the therapist exposed my butt cheeks and worked on them. I probably wouldn't return.


As a side note to add depth to this thread (for any clients reading), many MT's are taught that the glutes/buttocks are not a seperate entity from the leg, but an extension of the leg.

I was taught and look at the leg in this manner: Put your finger on your belly button and then think of the leg as an extension downward from that point. Don't think of leg and buttocks. Although the buttocks have specific muscles within that area, they provide a function within the leg apparatus itself, which can of course extend into lower back issues.

When you think about it this way (if you weren't taught that), you can see how the buttocks become less of a point to be concerned about when a therapist exposes the area.


Thank you. I've never thought of it that way and my school did not teach the butt as an extension of the leg, but I can see how it would be most beneficial to learn this way.
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby Mia on Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:15 pm

Pueppi, you put that very nicely. I would add for the back sauce at the tip of the sacrum.

Angle, :D I don't know about you, but there is no way to do my pecs without going through the breast
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby GreenDragonfly on Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:55 pm

Mia wrote:Pueppi, you put that very nicely. I would add for the back sauce at the tip of the sacrum.

Angle, :D I don't know about you, but there is no way to do my pecs without going through the breast


I can do pecs while touching the breast tissue minimally and without the client feeling groped or by being invasive. If a client specifically requests a lot of pec work, I can access most of the tissue from the top down and get all the attachments by going around and underneath the breast tissue. Sometimes the clients assist me by moving or holding the bulk of their breast tissue out of the way. Any client wanting this work expects that you have to be near and on the edge of the breast tissue and that they will have to assist and are happy to do so to get the work that they want/need.
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby softy515 on Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:49 pm

I agree that the glutes are part of the leg. And the lower back. It is all connected.... not working in area's that need it is a waste of the clients time and money. This is where being professional and educated works. Educate the client and I can assure you they will always want glutes worked on.
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby riversinger on Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:11 pm

Here's another take from a Jin Shin Jyutsu/Asian Medical Energetic perspective: When you have tension in the middle/lower back and in the hipline/glutes - (which of course are connected to & part of the legs, I often find the Quads are tight when the hips/glutes exhibit tension & pain) another consideration is that the shoulder line is often blocked & and tight. This in turn may include having restrictions in the region of the collarbone, down around the anterior waistline and in the pelvis.

As JSJ practitioners we look at the body in segments: Bustline, Waistline & Hipline - whether from the front or the back & this also includes looking at the arms, or legs, even the finger & toes joints, the face/head, etc. (so if the waistline of the body is blocked it will often show up as a stiffness, and or possible swelling of the middle joint of the finger, hammer toes, etc.)

When I have client with stiffness in the hips/glutes, I almost always find the lower back region feels mushy in texture and the area just above will exhibit as being tight and blocked - often all the way up to the shoulders. I see it like this - the energy is blocked much like a beaver dam at the head of what would have been a stream, but has now developed into a "stagnant pond", (the upper back being the dam - though sometimes it extends to the pecs and further down to the front waist or hipline region). So I will often work to clear out the dam - or blocked areas first. That way the channel is cleared for the stagnant energy to move & clear out once I get to the hips & lower back.

Most of my session work incorporates an integrated approach, of massage mixed with the energetic modalities so that I can address client pain patterns along with their mental & emotional stress levels - all of which addresses the goal of getting them out of pain & being functional on all levels too! I do of course work on the hip/glute area as needed in the process, adding in elements of both Shiatsu & Active Isolated Stretching, usually through a sheet - although when I add in the hot stone work there is stone to skin, along with skin to skin contact as the hips/glutes are addressed.

A great deal of how much glute work is done depends on the clients needs, preferences and comfort level with this. Some people have had hip replacements, which may make them less mobile, others are simply not comfortable having work done in this area - whether its due to past trauma of abuse, or because some people are older & don't like the "intimate" nature of being touched in this region of their body, etc. As such we as practitioners must honor where our clients are at for whatever reason and be respectful of the people who we are touching.

Different regions of the country, and the world, as well as individual people from different backgrounds have a wide variety of personal, religious, or legal restrictions & beliefs that they live by. We are not here to judge them or call another practitioner wrong because they work differently than we ourselves do. If indeed we can support our clients & our fellow colleagues through discussion & education we will all benefit in the end.
Last edited by riversinger on Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby Mia on Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:47 pm

Greendragon

Again, you have to touch the breast. But, I have a tailor who always crosses his legs and his gracilis muscle is often sore. I do have him "hold his stuff" out of the way as I massage it.

As such we as practitioners must honor where our clients are at for whatever reason and be respectful of the people who we are touching.


River, you put it well. We need to do what the client wants. But if we don't do a full massage on a client who does not know better, I think we are cheating him or her. Would you go to a doctor who does not do a breast exam or a doctor who does not do a pelvic exam because she is uncomfortable doing so? No, From what I see in this country, you would sue them for malpractice.

I am a professional and I think we should be worried about malpractice for both doing something less than indicated or more (ie inappropriate).

People have said they don't do things because of their "professional bounderies" I think that should keep you from doing inappropriate "extras" but it should not allow you not to do something that is indicated which gluteal massage is.
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby GreenDragonfly on Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:36 am

Mia wrote:
River, you put it well. We need to do what the client wants. But if we don't do a full massage on a client who does not know better, I think we are cheating him or her. Would you go to a doctor who does not do a breast exam or a doctor who does not do a pelvic exam because she is uncomfortable doing so? No, From what I see in this country, you would sue them for malpractice.


Mai, it is apparent that our country offends you. We are aware of this. Is it necessary to bring it up in almost every post? I fail to see the reasoning.

Are you taking issue with particular laws or with the therapists? If a therapist is following the laws and does not do massage in a particular area, they can't be sued for malpractice. Anyone can be sued for any reason. I think that a person would have a tough time suing for malpractice for a service not performed by a massage therapist. The best they could get would be a refund.
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby Mia on Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:14 am

Dragon,
Your posts fit your name. I think you follow mine.

I thought my posting English was good?

I never said USA offends me, just the puritan beliefs and sue sue sue!

I thought my post was clear that I have issue with therapist not doing or offering gluteal massage because the therapist has problem with it! Sofie said it is a waste of the clients money - I think it is thief of clients money. I think they should be sued!

I think the Puritan laws that don't allow massage of chest (breasts) or gluts (if client wants) are STUPID and you should educate to change them :mrgreen:
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby pear2apple on Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:27 pm

Mia wrote:I never said USA offends me, just the puritan beliefs and sue sue sue!

I thought my post was clear that I have issue with therapist not doing or offering gluteal massage because the therapist has problem with it! Sofie said it is a waste of the clients money - I think it is thief of clients money. I think they should be sued!


You just said Americans sue too much, but here you are saying if something is not offered, clients should sue the therapist. Contradictory perhaps?!

Mia wrote:I think the Puritan laws that don't allow massage of chest (breasts) or gluts (if client wants) are STUPID and you should educate to change them :mrgreen:


Cut it out already will ya?! Do you even understand what a 'Puritan' is? Because the US as a whole is not Puritan, there are definitely groups that follow Puritan beliefs though.

And 'laws' are not Puritan! OMG! Just stop saying that until you fully understand what Puritan means! Here's some info on Puritans so you understand what it is you are talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puritan

I am not a Puritan just because I believe in modesty when it comes to draping and working skin-to-skin. And it is of legal/ethical laws for MASSAGE THERAPISTS to not massage the breast, unless it is part of your scope of practice. As for working the Pec muscles below breast tissue, I've had that done and the MT did not touch my breast tissue- it is possible. Surely if you have your license and any type of liability insurance, or just do some research you will see on AMTA Code of Ethics what it indicates for certain parts of the body.

As for you calling others 'stupid and you should educate to change them' please educate yourself. Clearly you are only repeatedly having these threads because you don't understand what ANYONE on here is saying. Please read and listen to what others are telling you. NO ONE here has said they refuse to massage the glutes! I have never had a massage that did not address the gluteal region in some way. Just because its not what you're used to doesn't make it wrong. Open your mind to new ideas.
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby riversinger on Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:10 pm

Mia, as a moderator of BWOL, I certainly feel we all have a right to an opinion. Regardless of what any individual practitioner does or doesn't do in their practice is between them & their clients. We all have laws we must abide by, in this country and our various municipalities, etc, as well as knowing what our clients need & want, and staying within both their own & our own ethical boundaries. Then there is the matter about what is appropriate for our training, scope of practice, etc.

Generally speaking, we are not here as a board to debate the matters of law suits. While the majority of us do strive to educate our clients, I believe we have become rather to focused in this particular thread, on the merits of addressing just a couple of the regions of the body - which while they are important, they are not the only aspects of concern to every client out there. If those particular portions of the body are ones you choose to work on with the appropriate training, skill & expertise while addressing the needs of your clients then by all means do what is required, so long as it is within your scope of practice & within the realm of the law in your particular region.

There's also the aspect of encouraging your clients to work on their problem areas through the use of exercise, strength training, stretching, etc. for which they may need to be referred out to a trainer, physical therapist, or others who can direct them in the best possible way to address their issues.

And for Mia & others posting on this thread: We all must do what we can to be understanding of one another. We do not tolerate any form of name calling, flaming or calling one another out. As professionals who use & share in this board for information, and common ground, it is best to treat one another with polite, professionalism, just as we all should treat one another in person.
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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby Mia on Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:49 pm

River, thank you

Pear, i think you should also reread. Bi did not call anyone stupid. I did call Puritan laws like that in Tennessee that say you cannot do breast area very stupid. I have also been told not to use wiki but Webster http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/puritan which uses my definition

Pear, if you read the posts, others also say not doing the gluts is cheating and touching the butt would offend them. Rather than "accept" them, we should educate them. I have been educated to do things different than I was taught because of your laws, etc. I think the reverse also holds

Forums should be used to civilly discuss (dragon lady) and learrn :razz:

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Re: Did your MT massage your glutes

Postby GreenDragonfly on Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:04 pm

Mia wrote:
Pear, if you read the posts, others also say not doing the gluts is cheating and touching the butt would offend them. Rather than "accept" them, we should educate them. I have been educated to do things different than I was taught because of your laws, etc. I think the reverse also holds


It is most important to meet the client where they are and their level of comfort. I think this is a common thread we have seen throughout these postings on the subject of draping, areas that would be worked, ect.

Educating clients is always a good thing, but first they have to be OK with the treatment and the therapists that have participated in this thread all agree that the glutes are good to work so not sure where the 'argument' is with that.

Mia wrote:Forums should be used to civilly discuss (dragon lady) and learrn :razz:


eh? I've been civil, funny sometimes, annoyed sometimes, but civil :)
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