I would appreciate some help if you have time?

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Old Dog
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I would appreciate some help if you have time?

Post by Old Dog » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:34 pm

Hi everyone and thank you in advance.

I am researching a subject for an article and the subject is:

What is massage?

I will basically write the content below and if you could agree or disagree with me I could guage how we could define massage as a group. This way perhaps we could understand what we do and how we could do it better in the future.

Let me first explain my interpretation of a part of us that essentially makes up the very core of our being.

The Dura Mater is a special skin that surrounds the brain, attaches to the Axis and third cervical vertebrae, runs down the entire length of our spine and attaches for the last time at our sacrum.

The dura is one of the very first parts of us to form in the womb. This is why I explain it as being at our core.

The dura not only protects and houses our brain but it is responsible for housing our central nervous system. As we know, the nervous system conducts electrical impulses which enables us to perform a very wide range of incredible functions.

When we get stressed our central nervous system becomes stressed. So by relaxing the nerves we can relax the dura. And by relaxing the dura, we are relaxing the core of ourselves.

Swedish massage is an effective way of doing this by influencing the countless numbers of nerve receptors within our skin. That feeling of calm release flows from outside to inside, relaxing the bed of nerves.

Deep tissue massage takes this process further by also relaxing the deep receptors within the muscles.

My personal choice is deep tissue work but I am not saying, Swedish is a lesser technique. To me both are closely related but different in many ways.

I realize there are other factors to massage like flow of lymph and circulation etc but I believe relaxing the core of the people who needs us is special and this is something we can all be proud of. I enjoy my work very much for this reason. I hope you do also.

Before I sign off I have a question for you that would help me very much.

Do you think there is enough quality, focused education out there to effectively study deep tissue massage techniques and theories?

H2 sent me an excellent post that informed me of a great school (Sorry, can't remember exactly where) But apparently it had an extensive neck massage program which suggests a good deep tissue education. H2 was very happy and has just graduated.

I remember back some twenty plus years ago when I still had my massage training wheels on, there was not much in the way of deep tissue education. I fairly much had to self educate and learn from the field. Luckily I met with many excellent teachers who helped me.

Please tell me about your experience concerning deep tissue education.

Thanks
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cstbrian
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Re: I would appreciate some help if you have time?

Post by cstbrian » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:52 am

Old Dog wrote:When we get stressed our central nervous system becomes stressed. So by relaxing the nerves we can relax the dura. And by relaxing the dura, we are relaxing the core of ourselves.

Swedish massage is an effective way of doing this by influencing the countless numbers of nerve receptors within our skin. That feeling of calm release flows from outside to inside, relaxing the bed of nerves.

Old Dog,
I am curious how you pulled this theory together. Is this your own personal theory or did they teach you this in school? It sounds like a good theory; but as someone who is in and out of the craniosacral system on a daily basis, I would say it's not very accurate.

I continue to perform massage (swedish and deep tissue) as well as CST. I have a bunch of clients who receive combo sessions targeting specific issues. My findings are that massage alone (swedish or DT) is not enough to 'relax' dural membranes.

One way it is possible that this theory might work, is that by performing DT massage, you are releasing fascial restrictions in the body. If these fascial restrictions were creating a pull that effected a nerve root, and you remove the fascial pull, then you will release the tension on that nerve root and related dural component. However, it is rarely that simple. Most dural restrictions need to be addressed by working directly with the dural membrane.

I think your idea of relaxing the core is more about getting a person into his/her parasympathetic system. It's about the CNS and not about the craniosacral system. Yes, the CS system houses the CNS and working the CS system will often activate a person's parasympathetic system, but I don't believe that a DT massage relaxes the CS system. It's much more complicated than that.
Brian

"Life isn't about finding yourself ... life is about creating yourself." George Bernard Shaw
"When we try to control that which is out of our control, we become an incredibly anxiety prone society." Dr. John Upledger

Old Dog
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The theory

Post by Old Dog » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:28 am

Thanks, Brian.

That was most interesting and exactly what I am looking for. That being another view point to consider. I shall go away and discuss your experience with my brain trust.

The theory is not my own, but it made sense to me as a simplified idea.

I work in an environment with medical colleagues from other fields on a daily basis. I was explained this to me by the Orthopedic surgeon. I thought it worth researching so I took it further to the Neurologist who confirmed and expanded somewhat as this is his specialty area.

I don't think his knowledge goes into Cranial Sacral field so your thoughts are welcome.

Thanks again

Max
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Old Dog
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Update

Post by Old Dog » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:35 am

Thanks to the correction from, Brian I've gone away, re-thunk and researched further.

This is what I've learned:

I was incorrect by saying massage can relax the dura. SMACK! I just got wacked by a rotten tomato. Ouch!

But by influencing the receptors of the skin and deep muscles we can send positive signals back to the source, which is the CNS. The Dura cannot be relaxed by massage because it is only the housing and bed that conducts signals to the brain. It is a skin that encases the nerves and it is not under any stress related pressure.

The positve signals from massage travel the entire length of the nerve system up to the brain. This is where the signals of pain and stress are received and processed. When we relax here, we relax there.

Thanks Brian.

Max
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JasonE
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Post by JasonE » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:51 pm

Sounds like you are talking about the Gamma feedback loop. Take a look at the book "Job's Body" by Deane Juhan for good thinking on this. I know some amazing people that are training a new breed of therapists in Neurological Bodywork right now, under the recently-formed Gamma Institute. Their particular area of expertise is neurological assessment and working with various forms of neurological impairment.
Jason Erickson, NCTMB, ACE-CPT, AIS-TA
Massage Therapist, Personal Trainer
http://www.CSTMinnesota.com

Internet forums are like going to the zoo; if you get enough monkeys together, sooner or later someone will start throwing their poo.

Old Dog
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Great minds

Post by Old Dog » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:14 am

Thanks Jason.

I will check that book out for sure. The merging of alternative fields fascinates me, even if I can't spell the word properly.

It would be interesting to watch as their research moves forwards. If you get the op, please inform me further to their progress.

Appreciated

Max
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JasonE
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Post by JasonE » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:51 pm

Here's a quick outline of the curriculum:

http://www.paulabergs.com/Neurology.htm

I attended a 2 hour intro session, and it was a WEALTH of good info expertly presented. The time and $ involved in the course don't work for me yet, but I'd love to go through it later!
Jason Erickson, NCTMB, ACE-CPT, AIS-TA
Massage Therapist, Personal Trainer
http://www.CSTMinnesota.com

Internet forums are like going to the zoo; if you get enough monkeys together, sooner or later someone will start throwing their poo.

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cstbrian
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Post by cstbrian » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:29 am

Jason,

I checked out the link, but didn't get too much understanding from the page. Could you give us a brief overview of what it is, how it works, and how it is applied to the body?

As a bodyworker specializing in CranioSacral Therapy, I am always interested in work that targets the nervous system. (Hence my other previous post about Bowen/NST.)

Thanks!!
Brian
Brian

"Life isn't about finding yourself ... life is about creating yourself." George Bernard Shaw
"When we try to control that which is out of our control, we become an incredibly anxiety prone society." Dr. John Upledger

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JasonE
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Post by JasonE » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:19 am

Uhhhmmm... I'm gonna recommend that you contact Paula Bergs about that one. She can put you in touch with Dr. Michael Pierce if necessary. He is the head of the program, but Paula and several other bodyworkers are on the faculty. They are far better suited to answer your questions.

I understand that a dedicated web site with more information is forthcoming, but I don't know if it has been launched yet. The preliminary introductory session I attended discussed the gamma feedback loop (read Job's Body by Deane Juhan for more on this), some characteristics and implications of various neurological problems, and some ways that bodyworkers might be able to help those with neurological issues. Neurological assessment protocols are definitely part of the course.

Here's one case that I am personally familiar with: "Barb" has a bewildering assortment of weird symptoms that come and go. They have plagued her on and off throughout her life. There is little apparent logic, and it took years for a series of patterns to emerge. It turns out that "Barb" has a severe case of brain hemisphericity - basically one side of the brain is functioning very weakly compared to the other. Activities and skills requiring the weaker side are very tough, but have few negative consequences. Activities and skills drawing on the dominant hemisphere come easily at first, but at a cost.

"Barb" is severely sensitive to sensory input - light, sound, you name it. For example, too much noise on one side can spark a variety of problems, anything from rapid changes in blood oxygenation to headaches to numb patches in her face or a limb... the list is long. During bodywork, "Barb" must simultaneously receive stimulation for the "weak" hemisphere to keep it engaged. Her treatment includes brain exercises such as doing Sudoku puzzles upside down. Her athletic trainers must incorporate a surprising variety of relaxation and breathing methods into intense training sessions. Despite all this, "Barb" is very successful, happily married, and able-bodied.

While "Barb" is unusual, she is just one of millions walking around with some type of neurological impairment. Being able to detect abnormalities, assess their nature, and determine an appropriate course of action is key to providing the help these people need.
Jason Erickson, NCTMB, ACE-CPT, AIS-TA
Massage Therapist, Personal Trainer
http://www.CSTMinnesota.com

Internet forums are like going to the zoo; if you get enough monkeys together, sooner or later someone will start throwing their poo.

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