So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Discussion of treatments including, but not limited to: muds, masks, parafango, waxing, hydrotherapy, facials, thallasotherapy, dermabrasion, etc. Popular topics will be given their own forum upon request.

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So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby Timedess on Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:49 pm

I must admit that I am surprised. This is the guy who initially only ever wanted to work on horses, and not people. Then he got his license and works on people, but "pain management/therapeutic only-- none of that cushy spa stuff".

Apparently someone's been talking to him about reducing physical strain on us while increasing income by adding spa treatments. Guess I can't really argue with that.

So, my question to y'all is-- if we do end up pursuing this, where to start? I got the recent Biotone catalog, with, naturally, all sots of tips, tricks, ideas, and *products*. Dunno if that's a good product line or not, or to start w/ product, or take come CE classes, or find some books, or...??? I figure I'll get a head start on some research so if he actually does come to me with "Let's do this", I'll be ready with some real options, instead of just standing there like a deer caught in the headlights.

Thoughts?
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby squash_blsm on Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:01 am

LOL!

Okay - I actually DO spa stuff.
Not sure what their conversation was but scrubs and wraps are labor intensive hands -on services.
What services was he thinking about doing?

Products...

Biotone - Maybe other people like this stuff but not me. Check out the ingredient lists....yuk. The products are overpriced for what they are. I might be biased because I never liked their massage products ... I am also sensitized/allergic to a lot of them.

Lotus Touch - Not great products either (my opinion), but some people like them.

For now - I have gone with Spa Blends for a lot of things - they recently reduced their min. order for wholesale accts and I personally like the products. If you want to also sell retail, this is a pretty good line to try.
Their Butter Scrub is nice, the Body Butter is fab - you can use it in hydrating wraps, and I just got in but haven't tried yet a body mud masque (good for detox mud wraps).
You can get products in various scented and unscented.
I usually get the unscented but have just started ordering scented to try and am considering adding the retail.
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby Timedess on Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:57 am

Thanks for the reply, squashy. :)

I'm wondering about just making my own stuff? I buy so much "raw ingredients" in bulk and make-it-myself for home use anyway, it would not be much more to do it for the office. I guess for things like muds it would be best to use something commercial-- although I HAVE Bentonite clay at home and use it myself from time to time. Not often-- I've had it for years. I use it for medical reasons, not vanity reasons. I remember my first contact with Bentonite clay-- it was at a horse barn. We used it to "mud" the horses' legs. Imagine mixing up a 5-gallon bucket of the stuff at a time. Yummy, fun! It was used to pull heat and inflammation from their legs after hard workouts-- and worked amazingly well. It was a dry mix, which had some sort of "stuff" added to it that made it smell "strongly"-- eucalyptus, maybe, or wintergreen. Smelled like liniment.

I am just not into clothes, shoes, makeup, spa days, mani/pedicures, etc.. So this is aaaalllllll new territory for me. But I have made up my own salt and sugar glows, that were *amazing*. I'm really good at salves, too-- creams wouldn't be too far for a next stretch. and I *love* making things like that-- more than using them, I think, LOL!
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby squash_blsm on Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:07 pm

Well then that's definitely the direction that you should go in!
Most of the clays and seaweed come in powdered form anyway - just add liquid(water - or I have brewed up a bit of green tea), essential oils if you use them, other herbals, and a little bit of oil makes product removal easier.
The advantage to making it yourself is that you totally control what goes in.
And overall, once you have the basics, product costs will be lower.

I tried to edit my previous post to add in the book that helped me with procedures for scrubs and wraps...
they have some basic recipes - but for me the value of the book was all the tips and tricks about applying/removing product, how to set up your table, supplies needed etc...

http://www.amazon.com/Spa-Bodywork-Guid ... 183&sr=8-1

good price for used.

Oh - and powdered clay doesn't ever go "bad" as far as I know...I still have some bentonite myself. :D
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby Timedess on Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:04 pm

I think it was more along the lines of "you'll save yourself over doing deep tissue for the rest of your life". He was even encouraging Dh to get into facials for men. I'm like, when do I ever get to do anything? LOL!

Honestly, I could, really, totally get into this. Researching the ingredients, what goes in why, how much, when, where, and such. It really "floats my herbalist boat", so to speak. And yes we could totally customize everything according to clients' needs and desires, or go totally unscented if necessary (though I many be the only one on the planet who actually likes the scent of "mud". Then again, I also love walking into a lived-in horse barn and taking a deep breath. Smells like Heave, to me! Barn-scented seaweed wraps would sell well, I think... NOT! But I digress....).

But still-- would you recommend a class for spa techniques? To at least get something under our belts about it? I know we did some spa stuff in hydrotherapy class (salt glows and a mud or seaweed wrap, I think), but... it's been a while. And there's little to be said for awkwardness. Or is it just something basic that gets better with practice, anyway? I hate to "waste" CE budget on something we could do w/o a class, especially since Upledger is coming to our area in November and I want to do that, and Walt is coming in March and I AM going to do THAT!
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby squash_blsm on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:51 am

You know - I have never taken a class in spa techniques...
Most of what I've learned has been somebody showing me how they do it (in house spa training - such as it was), reading books, asking questions, oh and getting spa treatments myself (as research :lol: ).

I don't know if it would be worth paying for a class - you have to practice on real people/clients anyway.

I always write out my own protocols for every service.

Line up some volunteers - people who have gotten spa treatments at other places are the best for giving feedback.
It's really a learn as you go thing...kinda like massage!

Several people on this forum do spa treatments and I know will be happy to help out with questions, ideas on where to get supplies...etc.

I like the smell of mud too - very earthy and natural. The barn-scented mud I will pass on.
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby JLWmassage on Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:58 am

There is a male MT near me that does body treatments just for men. And he does ok with them. He claims his treatments aren't girly, :smt005 , if that's even possible.

He say he does a lot with a honey massage and oatmeal scrubs with male scents
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby MarionFM on Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:51 am

Just a word of caution - check with your insurance company if you are thinking about making your own product. Some insurance companies might have concerns about that.

Also, from the liability view, does changing direction (such as into spa type treatments or selling product) make a difference to the insurance company?

I used to be an insurance broker. We might assume what we are doing is much the same in our eyes but check anyway.
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby Timedess on Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:55 am

Thanks for the tips and cautions (Marion esp.) We use ABMP for our professional insurance-- I'll give them a call. "Male MT doing Men-only spa treatments", huh? Does that go well for him?

I actually think, and told him this morning, that we need to remain on the course we'd previously chosen for the time being (therapeutic/pain management). But this could be something to add for the future. Maybe when I'm not so busy "being Mom" and can dedicate more time and energy to being more than just admin here at the office. He agreed.
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby squash_blsm on Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:20 pm

Not a bad idea to keep on the back burner...maybe sometime in the future it will make sense to try it out...

And yes - with your own product you do assume the liability - so you need to keep ingredient lists on hand.
But even with purchased product things happen...comes with the territory.
Good intake is still important to discover known allergies and contraindications

Two other "spa" type treatments (not scrub/wrap) are
hot and cold stone massage
and thai herbal compress massage.
Both of those have therapeutic benefits with not too much investment in supplies.
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby Timedess on Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:18 pm

Thanks Squashy. We already do hot and cold stone stuff (not so much cold stone-- would like to look into that more!). Find that even though we "offer" hot stone, not many actually WANT it.Could have sumpin'ado with this horrific drought we've been having this summer. Makes me wonder, though, if people will ever actually "look at us as a spa-type place". We focus on pain management. Dh does 99.5% of the massaging. Even when I "offer" something.... we're just "known" for HIS massages, not mine. That's okay-- I have enough to do. But the thai stem massage-- that would fit in well with "what folks expect from him", I think. And could be a good beginning merge into other stuff for later.
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby squash_blsm on Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:20 am

Yeah - hot stone massage during the summer months are awful. Love them during the winter though to warm up.
I have received cold marble stone treatment and it's not exactly pleasant...a friend of mine does it though and she says it is going well. I like the Kelly Lott training on cold stone treatment for headaches/migraine. I want to offer that next year. The marble stone sets are a little pricey.

I REALLY like the Thai Herbal Compress...
the class that I took was long before this treatment really caught on...we actually MADE our own compresses!
I later ended up purchasing the package from Massage Warehouse that included the rice steamer and the training dvd.
Unfortunately, because the compresses are $15/pair and can only be used once the menu pricing on this is pretty high and it's a 90 minute treatment I've only had a few bookings - but it is such an awesome treatment. The Sabai training dvd incorporates the hot compresses, massage, and Thai style stretches on the table. The stretches are smooth and gentle - everything gets stretched. The compresses themselves are made with herbs and have soothing and detoxifying effects...they smell heavenly.
Seriously - a lovely treatment. I probably just have to market it better.
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby JLWmassage on Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:32 am

If hubby is looking to save his body how about Bamboo fusion or cupping massage. Both can be deep and powerful work
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby moogie on Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:26 am

JLWmassage wrote:If hubby is looking to save his body how about Bamboo fusion or cupping massage. Both can be deep and powerful work


After my 2nd shoulder surgery 8 yrs the doctor told me I had to stop doing massage. As you can see, I didn't listen to him. What I did do was add more variety to my repertoire. I think the key is to make sure you are not doing the same movements over and over again. If he wants to keep focusing on therapeutic massage, he needs to add more tools to his toolbox.

Cupping is a good one to look into. I've added it to my practice. I don't use it often as it's not for everyone but some of my clients love it. Positional release is another good one. Any of the modalities that offer stretching is also good.

I added spa treatments to my menu but honestly I rarely do any of them. Especially since the economy had tanked, I find that most of my clients are coming for pain relief not pampering. Scrubs can be quite labor intensive but at least you are doing a different movement than what you normally do with a massage. Wraps are good for the same reason.

I also offer Hot Stone which helps my shoulder as it's not a continuous movement type of treatment. You have to break contact to switch stones and so on.

I've recently added Thai massage and I just LOVE it. Some of my clients are so hooked on it that they never get a table massage anymore.

I really don't think it matters so much what he adds to the practice, it's more that he adds something to give his body a break from doing the same action over and over again.



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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby Timedess on Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:08 am

WOW now we're really getting somewhere! Thanks for all the replies (this forum really needs a multi-quote" function).

squash_blsm wrote:Yeah - hot stone massage during the summer months are awful. Love them during the winter though to warm up.
I have received cold marble stone treatment and it's not exactly pleasant...a friend of mine does it though and she says it is going well. I like the Kelly Lott training on cold stone treatment for headaches/migraine. I want to offer that next year. The marble stone sets are a little pricey.

I REALLY like the Thai Herbal Compress...
the class that I took was long before this treatment really caught on...we actually MADE our own compresses!
I later ended up purchasing the package from Massage Warehouse that included the rice steamer and the training dvd.
Unfortunately, because the compresses are $15/pair and can only be used once the menu pricing on this is pretty high and it's a 90 minute treatment I've only had a few bookings - but it is such an awesome treatment. The Sabai training dvd incorporates the hot compresses, massage, and Thai style stretches on the table. The stretches are smooth and gentle - everything gets stretched. The compresses themselves are made with herbs and have soothing and detoxifying effects...they smell heavenly.
Seriously - a lovely treatment. I probably just have to market it better.


Squashy, we actually own TWO sets of Kelly Lott's marble stones. One for the office and one for the house! We have the training DVD, but haven't taken the course-- yet. Have you taken her training for it yet? I took her prenatal certification course RIGHT out of massage school, and it was great-- but I kinda wish that I could take it (or another really good one) again now, because, well, I just know so much more now and I know my level of understanding is so much different now. Dh does use the marble stones when clients have headaches sometimes, and they seems to love it.

I want to know MORE about the Thai Herbal Compress massage. This is something that has caught our eye before, and it seems that it would indeed go very well with his "M.O.", so to speak. We need to really get "known" in these here parts for stuff other than "just a typical massage"-- especially now that ME has moved in very close to us. And last night we learned that they offer CranioSacral massage... maybe not in the particular branch in our neighborhood, but they do KNOW about it. I feel behind! I bet the herbal compress sessions could easily be made into an add-on treatment for Dh... or me, for that matter, but we've already had that conversation. :P

I've heard that the Thai compresses can be re-used, just not on a different client, like, you could give them to the client to take home and that's a "value-added" sort of thing? Not sure I'm saying it right....
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby shivashiva on Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:11 am

moogie wrote:I really don't think it matters so much what he adds to the practice, it's more that he adds something to give his body a break from doing the same action over and over again.


I think this is SO TRUE! I find that even just doing one Abhyanga massage interspersed with all the deep tissue/swedish stuff will break up my day fantastically. Even though abhyanga can be labor intensive it's in such a different way that it feels great. Ideally I would like to alternate through maybe do a swedish, a deep tissue, an abhyanga, a facial, a wrap/scrub. The repetition thing is key. You could even alternate what tools you use. Do one massage with mainly hands, and the next massage with mainly forearms and elbows?
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby Timedess on Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:12 am

JLWmassage wrote:If hubby is looking to save his body how about Bamboo fusion or cupping massage. Both can be deep and powerful work


He actually IS known for his cupping sessions-- and he's never "taken a proper class" for it. He ended up being the guinea pig-- er, I mean model, for a few cupping classes when he was working at the school about 3 years ago, because he had/has SO many "cool issues to practice on" lol. He learned a lot of what to do and what NOT to do just from that, and started exploring and experimenting on himself, me and a few receptive clients, and now... people refer others to him just for that.

Bamboo fusion-- we've heard of that too, but don't know much about it yet. It, too, seems like it would "fit right in". Is it a treatment unto itself, or could be an add-on, or...???? How much is the per-treatment cost?
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby Timedess on Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:15 am

moogie wrote:
JLWmassage wrote:If hubby is looking to save his body how about Bamboo fusion or cupping massage. Both can be deep and powerful work


After my 2nd shoulder surgery 8 yrs the doctor told me I had to stop doing massage. As you can see, I didn't listen to him. What I did do was add more variety to my repertoire. I think the key is to make sure you are not doing the same movements over and over again. If he wants to keep focusing on therapeutic massage, he needs to add more tools to his toolbox.

Cupping is a good one to look into. I've added it to my practice. I don't use it often as it's not for everyone but some of my clients love it. Positional release is another good one. Any of the modalities that offer stretching is also good.

I added spa treatments to my menu but honestly I rarely do any of them. Especially since the economy had tanked, I find that most of my clients are coming for pain relief not pampering. Scrubs can be quite labor intensive but at least you are doing a different movement than what you normally do with a massage. Wraps are good for the same reason.

I also offer Hot Stone which helps my shoulder as it's not a continuous movement type of treatment. You have to break contact to switch stones and so on.

I've recently added Thai massage and I just LOVE it. Some of my clients are so hooked on it that they never get a table massage anymore.

I really don't think it matters so much what he adds to the practice, it's more that he adds something to give his body a break from doing the same action over and over again.



Angie


As I said, he already does the cupping. And when he uses hot stones-- it's not the pampering "place 'em and leave 'em" type, but the therapeutic mixed-in-with-the-massage type. He's actually stopped doing stones at all, unless people specifically ask for it-- and they may start, later on when it cools off. But it was too much, getting them all set up and on at the start of the day and all the cleanup in between and after and all. Wasn't really helping HIM any.

We'll have to look more into Thai massage, too. Go well with Thai Compresses much?
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby Timedess on Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:18 am

shivashiva wrote:
moogie wrote:I really don't think it matters so much what he adds to the practice, it's more that he adds something to give his body a break from doing the same action over and over again.


I think this is SO TRUE! I find that even just doing one Abhyanga massage interspersed with all the deep tissue/swedish stuff will break up my day fantastically. Even though abhyanga can be labor intensive it's in such a different way that it feels great. Ideally I would like to alternate through maybe do a swedish, a deep tissue, an abhyanga, a facial, a wrap/scrub. The repetition thing is key. You could even alternate what tools you use. Do one massage with mainly hands, and the next massage with mainly forearms and elbows?


I haven't heard of abhyanga massage. Got a link?

I do agree-- he does need to mix it up more. When he can use mostly the cups all day, and only have to do SOME actual deeper hands-on work, he's fine for 4-5 sessions. He has a few clients, though, who simply don't want the cups, even though it WOULD be easier for him to get more done. And those are the people he has to "work harder" for. We need to determine whether or not or policy of charging the same no matter what modality/-ies done is really helping us to this end. Maybe we SHOULD charge more for "hands-on deep tissue". It's been so hard to get him to remember every little bit and piece, though. Hmmmm.... <scratching head and thinking hard>
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby Convoluted on Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:17 am

moogie wrote:I really don't think it matters so much what he adds to the practice, it's more that he adds something to give his body a break from doing the same action over and over again.

Angie


Another Ditto on this quote.

Last year I added Ashiatsu Oriental Bar Therapy to my menu. More than 1/2 of my clients receive Ashi in all or part of their sessions. It helps me so much!
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby Timedess on Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:11 am

I thought of Ashiatsu, but that would have to be more "me" than him, and I don't think either of us would be comfortable with that at this point in time (it's a personal thing).
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby TouchofGrace on Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:21 pm

I have always had spa services on my menu, but have only done a few facial applications and salt glows since opening. What helps me is Lymphatic Drainage. Especially in this area, there are many clients with headaches due to the "up and UP humidity" and it is lovely being able to spend 30 minutes on someone's scalp, face, and neck. They are happy that their headache is better/gone and I am happy that I got to take it easy. Many clients have problems with swelling around their 'problem' knee, or even in their ankles, and like for me to take 15 min of the massage giving that fluid a boost. It is a VERY relaxing treatment and is beneficial to both of us. I don't remember who recommended this, but it was here...the rolled hot towel under the neck while lying supine. In those 15 minutes that I am working the legs, I have a hot towel beneath their neck. They wouldn't care how long I spent using LDM as long as that towel is warm. And I remember Bliss saying that it makes the rest of the massage more enjoyable for them as they (and their muscles) are so relaxed when you start with LDM. And they love the hot stones too. Even as hot as it is, as long as the room is good and cool, they would feel as if something were missing if I didn't use the hot stones. I take them with me when I go mobile as well. That's a few minutes of feel good to them and to my hands as well. Another 'good for both of us' service.

I could have done more spa services if I had wanted to, but I usually ended up sending clients elsewhere for those requests because I felt someone more experienced and comfortable working in that area would do a better job. You and your husband may find you enjoy the spa work more than you think you will. Never know until we get our hands in there and 'see' if it's a perfect fit for us. And the best way to decide which area you want to try, is to be on the receiving end of the treatment. Good luck and keep us informed!
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby Timedess on Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:28 pm

Thanks for the encouragement, Sandra. I've told him that we need to schedule a session for the both of us at the school-- in their fancy new facility. Since it's "research" (I have *never* had a "spa treatment" of any sort done before, other than what we did in class... and that was kinda rushed and definitely NOT private!), we'll be able to write it off. Tee hee! Imagine that-- Uncle Sam paying us to go get pampered!
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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby shivashiva on Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:59 pm

Abhyanga is a warm oil massage from India in the tradition of ayurveda. Here's one I found on youtube that shows what a single therapist abhyanga looks like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCMcLEjZKvo

And here's my students learning two therapist abhyanga:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cC2202dkAc

It's a light to medium pressure massage that focuses more on blissfully amazing strokes instead of pressure and working out knots. You are lulled into a peaceful dreamstate with rhythmic strokes.

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Re: So now he's actually considering adding spa stuff!

Postby melb on Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:52 pm

I covered quite a bit of spa type treatments in my aromatherapy course and after that went onto some lomi lomi and Ayurvedic stuff, but most of that were massage techniques rather than add-ons. I use some fo the aromatehrapy moves in pretty much every tratment I do, a bit of lomi and a bit of Ayurvedic stuff (those two have a lot of similarities).
The best add-on training I've done has been with the International Dermal Institute, the education arm of Dermalogica. Most of the people on the courses were skin therapists rather than massage, so they had their speeds and the relaxation type stuff down well. Just getting worked on by the other students on the course was an education. IDI doesn't bother with quite so much of the body stuff anymore, they've gone back to mainly a skin focus, BUT they do have some spa treatment DVDs still around (. They also have a few courses still, on the website under Education Plan 'Master Therapist' - the 2 day Stress Therapy Treatments is a back routine which is VERY effective, the 2 day Reflexology course gives you enough to do a really good foot massage, the 2 day Advanced Face Massage is amazing for relaxation and face and neck tension, but totally different moves to what you'd be doing normally giving the hands a break. You might have to have a bit of a discussion with them because you're not a skin therapist, but they were happy for me to do the massage type classes as long as I had a hands-on qualification, they just wouldn't let me into any of the skin classes.
ID used to have DVDs/Videos available, they seem to have dropped the body ones, they were Spa body therapy : hydro packs, seaweed and exfoliation techniques A step-by-step guide to spa body therapy treatments, including converting a dry room into a wet room setup, the spa wrap procedure, specific demonstrations on hydration packs, seaweed and mud therapy, dry body brushing, salt scrubs, plus details on the spa equipment required to do these treatments AND Spa body therapy: herbal linen wraps and paraffin wrap techniques. A step-by-step guide to spa body therapy treatments, including detoxifying herbal linen wrap as well as hand, foot and full body paraffin wax wraps. Includes how to prepare the dry bed for spa services, the correct procedure for a spa wrap, demonstrations of the various techniques, and details of the spa equipment required to do these treatments. They're probably the most detailed best explained videos.

The aloe ideas sticky at the top of this section has a lot of ideas, it originally came form LNE online. It has lots of articles like http://www.lneonline.com/featured_archi ... ve/?200907 It's worth looking in all the various section on the home page, they don't put everything together where you would expect it, some are articles, some are featured articles, some are step by steps....
melb
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