Is massage a treat or a treatment?

[Hans Fuhrubbin]

Massage therapist are often put into the position to choose sides, medical/therapeutic or relaxation/luxury massage. The client is offered only two choices as well, treat or treatment. They must earn the right to get a massage by virtue of special occasion or unbearable pain. I believe we can offer them the third option of well-being.

Instead of choosing between the health care industry and the beauty industry I feel we should just present massage as the "Well-Being" industry. If we invited other professions who's intent is to keep people healthy, like personal trainers, yoga instructors, nutritionist and the like we could create associations that encourage people to avoid unnecessary surgery and drugs.

I believe most of us became massage therapist to help people. We do the best we can. We do massage because it will make people happier and less stressed. It is OK to earn a living making people feel better. I know for me that when someone walks in all bent over and stressed and bounces out feeling lighter and happy it give me job satisfaction. Nothing make my day more than hearing that was the best massage I ever had. That will make them more healthy is just a perk for me.

So what that insurance won't pay for it. Look at the things they pay for that cause more harm than good. A recent study by JAMA has determined that there is little or no difference between results on back pain by operative and non-operative therapies. The notable difference was that the income of the people that opted out of surgery was higher. I believe that is because they could afford alternatives, like massage.

They argue that there is little empirical evidence that massage is as effective as drugs. I let you in a a secret there is not a lot of empirical evidence on surgery either. the effectiveness of back surgery is just as hard to prove the effects of massage on back pain. Either you get a massage and it works or it does not back surgery is a 50/50 proposition. I will say this though there are not near as many casualties doing massage as there is in medicine and surgery. I have never massage the wrong leg off a person. Non of my massages has ever caused the side effect of suicidal thoughts.
To me this seems to be the best selling point we can use for massage. We do less harm then good. Look up how many massage clients were accidentally crippled by a bad massage therapist licensed or unlicensed. How many pregnant women were injured during a massage or had a miscarriage due to a untrained massage therapist? When was the last time some one had a stroke on a massage table because the therapist massaged varicose veins? Have you ever heard of a licensed or unlicensed trained or untrained therapist causing the death of a client with a deep vein thrombosis? I have searched for cases I have asked the insurance companies and I cannot find any cases. Not that there are none and I don't want to say we don't need schools and associations. I am just saying for a profession that seems top get little respect from the main stream health industry our cost benefit analysis seems to be better than theirs. If you have information on the hazards of massage I would love to see it. I am currently working on an article for the AMTA.

Even if we look at it from an economical point of view. Cost wise most people have a co-pay and must pay into there premium. If massage keeps them feeling better it is worth the cost. Not to mention drug costs.

If we let insurance companies regulate us they will want to tell you what you can a cannot do to make the client feel better. Say goodbye to intuitive treatments. I know someone who is going to be on the NJ massage board who already wants to control massage treatment like physical therapy with specific protocol for massage.

We as massage therapist need to own our profession. We need to stop complaining about how the insurance companies and the AMA don't recognize us and work on taking our profession back from the sex industry. If we want to be looked at as "legitimate". We need to make a clear boundary between us and the sex trade. We send our money to the AMTA and AMBP for malpractice insurance. We spend thousands and thousands on CEUs. Whatever your position on "entertainment massage" is we need to take a stand to either enforce the laws against it or legalize it and take the name massage off it or list it as "entertainment massage". We can at least direct those clients that call using code words where they can go legally. Licensing does not protect us from this. In states like NY and FL where massage is regulated and has been for a long time you can still find "happy ending" with no trouble. The licensing board has no authority against them and rarely goes after them. It is up to law enforcement to close them down and that is not the priority. Our money would be spent better filing lawsuits against "Massage Parlors" that are using the name massage illegally. They could use that money to lobby for legalized prostitution(unlikely). If you don't enforce the law why have it? We would be able to tax that industry instead of of financing organized crime. Maybe even fund some shelters to house runaways. Stop the spread of STDs with better testing and clinics.
The bottom line is, if we take control of the name massage we would not have to limit ourselves to being a treat or a treatment. We don't have to sit by and watched while massage has been associated with sex. Rather we can stand up and take our profession back. I see us fight amongst ourselves trying to decide which direction we need to go. Our first order of business is to stop arguing and use the numbers that we have. We vote and by the looks of this site and the many MTs in the country now we could have a pretty loud voice if we just address the right issues.

[rezod]

Very well said! I would love to read your article once it's finished.

[link7881]

I would say, both. A treat and a treatment. I love your article very much. It gives full knowledge about the wonders of massage. Great job!

[Hans Fuhrubbin]

There is now doubt that massage is both a treat and a treatment. The point is that if we discount the benefits of massage as a well-being regimen and sell it as pampering or *pain management we miss the majority of the population that could benefit from a massage. Some may call it relaxation massage, I prefer stress reduction massage. Whatever you call it science and research back up that stress is responsible for pain and some disease, or if you prefer "dis- ease".

I read in another post how someone was surprised how much better they felt after their "relaxation massage". This astonished me because as massage therapist we should be some of the most frequent clients of well-being massage. As a massage therapist I love to work on people that are not in pain and don't need me to fix them. Those clients bring in positive energies and help charge my batteries so when someone comes to me for help I can be there for them. God bless those of you who work on conditions all day. I can only hope that you are taking care of yourselves too. If you are constantly giving it is easy to burn yourself out. That is why you above all others should seek out the best massage therapist you can find. I would personally rather pay for a great massage then trade for a mediocre one.
As I said before we all deserve a place at the table as massage therapist. There is room for all from the massage tech at a hair salon to the medical spa therapist and everyone in between. The key is to find a way for the public to know how to choose the right massage for them. We are such a diverse and eclectic group it is not easy for the public to know what they are in for when they find us. Some are more energy workers some are more technical. Some are therapist some are technician. Part of the problem as I see it is the certification process is at the same time too general and not centralized. Those states that license generally give every massage therapist the same status. Unlike in nursing and physical therapy that have a tier system. Even doctors don't start out on a even plain as a matter of fact their are many levels of physicians and medical practitioner. In addition some states require Asian modality bodyworkers to be licensed in western techniques. They do not require MDs to be acupuncturists. As I also said in the earlier post there is little harm done by less trained therapist. So I see no reason why there could not be a basic massage tech license . I do not see it cutting into my business if someone works at a hair salon and applies oil to someone for $10 an hour. As long as they know that the person doing it has minimal training and is not a massage therapist. For those on a budget or those that want to try out massage it is a good introduction. If they do not have the best experience it does not reflect on what I do. If it is sold as massage therapy that is different because then that person might come out saying that massage therapy is a waste. If that therapist wants to move on and up they would need more education. In addition if you wanted to move into the medical massage field you would need much more education than you get at the average massage school. There are many directions you may choose in massage I see no reason the public should not see those choices more clearly too.

Education is a subject for another day but I will say I see no reason that a massage school is the only alternative to being a massage therapist. Some massage especially the eastern techniques are more of a discipline like a martial art I do not see anything wrong with it being taught as one by a master to his students. As I said I will save this argument for another day.

Thanks to those that replied to my post,
Peace


*I personally don't want to be associated with pain so I don't want pain anywhere near the name of my business. Not that there is anything wrong with that. There are plenty of people in pain and if you help them I applaud you.

[Hans Fuhrubbin]

This site is lame. I posted a discussion that regardless of your stand there should be some opinion and almost no one has anything to say. This is unbelievable.
I'm out

[TouchofGrace]

This site is lame. I posted a discussion that regardless of your stand there should be some opinion and almost no one has anything to say. This is unbelievable.
I'm out

If I judged this site on how many of my own replies were left unanswered, I would have left long ago. However, this is a busy site and ppl read here and there when and where they have time...and the energy to put into it. It's alot easier at the end of the day to say a quick 'Congratulations' than to post on those threads where you have to read a long post and formulate a reply. Perhaps, had your post been read on a different day or time, you would have received the outcome you expected. I've seen this a dozen times on the various boards I've posted on over the years.

Everyone has their own opinion, but I appreciate what this site offers and have learned some valuable knowledge and lessons from it.

[JasonE]

This site is lame. I posted a discussion that regardless of your stand there should be some opinion and almost no one has anything to say. This is unbelievable.
I'm out

Dude, you've made a total of 3 posts. While I applaud you for having opinions and being willing to share them, you obviously need to read more of the existing threads on these forums. What you have said in your few posts has been discussed before, in multiple threads, at great length. Seek, and you shall find.

It would also be helpful to break your long paragraphs into a few shorter ones.

That said, I hope you stick around long enough to become a part of the discussions here.

[pueppi]

Simple response for Hans who thinks the site is lame... "whatever".

Simple re-itteration of Han's long post, which was nice.... Wellness Care.

How rude to call others lame, just because we don't all have enough time in the day to sit down and respond to each and every thing on this site. How rude not to consider that sometimes we come here, log in, get a client, come back to the computer some hours later and find we're logged off or the end of the day has drawn upon us, leaving us to turn off the computer for the night and --- oh, my, can it be??? we log in the next day, but the little buttons that tell us something was responded to on the forum are a shade different than the day before... leaving us to sometimes skip past things. Oh, what lame people we are.

You're "out"? Whaaaaaaaa.... Apologize for having a bad day, and we may not flog you with a wet noodle!

[Hans Fuhrubbin]

How rude to call others lame, just because we don't all have enough time in the day to sit down and respond to each and every thing on this site. How rude not to consider that sometimes we come here, log in, get a client, come back to the computer some hours later and find we're logged off or the end of the day has drawn upon us, leaving us to turn off the computer for the night and --- oh, my, can it be??? we log in the next day, but the little buttons that tell us something was responded to on the forum are a shade different than the day before... leaving us to sometimes skip past things. Oh, what lame people we are.

I find it interesting it takes this post that calls you lame to get a reply.

Dude, you've made a total of 3 posts. While I applaud you for having opinions and being willing to share them, you obviously need to read more of the existing threads on these forums. What you have said in your few posts has been discussed before, in multiple threads, at great length. Seek, and you shall find.

If this is a communitiy when someone new come along with a disscussion that has been address it would be polite to direct them to that discussion.


If a new member joins a group it would aleast be polite to say welcome.

I have read searched through the threads to see if this issue has been raised.

If I judged this site on how many of my own replies were left unanswered, I would have left long ago. However, this is a busy site and ppl read here and there when and where they have time...and the energy to put into it. It's alot easier at the end of the day to say a quick 'Congratulations' than to post on those threads where you have to read a long post and formulate a reply. Perhaps, had your post been read on a different day or time, you would have received the outcome you expected. I've seen this a dozen times on the various boards I've posted on over the years.

I posted this thread because now that we are facing a new day in the healthcare industry it would be time to bring this subject up again. If we don't we will bw stuck with what ever the medical industry and insuance companies give us.

[Timedess]

Simple response for Hans who thinks the site is lame... "whatever".

Simple re-itteration of Han's long post, which was nice.... Wellness Care.

How rude to call others lame, just because we don't all have enough time in the day to sit down and respond to each and every thing on this site. How rude not to consider that sometimes we come here, log in, get a client, come back to the computer some hours later and find we're logged off or the end of the day has drawn upon us, leaving us to turn off the computer for the night and --- oh, my, can it be??? we log in the next day, but the little buttons that tell us something was responded to on the forum are a shade different than the day before... leaving us to sometimes skip past things. Oh, what lame people we are.

You're "out"? Whaaaaaaaa.... Apologize for having a bad day, and we may not flog you with a wet noodle!

but, pueppi, I'm too tired to cook any noodles.

[Hans Fuhrubbin]

How rude to call others lame, just because we don't all have enough time in the day to sit down and respond to each and every thing on this site. How rude not to consider that sometimes we come here, log in, get a client, come back to the computer some hours later and find we're logged off or the end of the day has drawn upon us, leaving us to turn off the computer for the night and --- oh, my, can it be??? we log in the next day, but the little buttons that tell us something was responded to on the forum are a shade different than the day before... leaving us to sometimes skip past things. Oh, what lame people we are.

I find it interesting it takes this post that calls you lame to get a reply.

Dude, you've made a total of 3 posts. While I applaud you for having opinions and being willing to share them, you obviously need to read more of the existing threads on these forums. What you have said in your few posts has been discussed before, in multiple threads, at great length. Seek, and you shall find.

I will space this out for you if you cannot handle a continuance thought.

If a new member joins a group it would a least be polite to say welcome.

I guess there is a minimum number of post before you will respond to a newcomer. You should probably mention that when we sign up.

If this is a community when someone new come along with a discussion that has been addressed it would be polite to direct them to that discussion.

I have read searched through the threads to see if this issue has been raised. I did not check every post though.

If I judged this site on how many of my own replies were left unanswered, I would have left long ago. However, this is a busy site and ppl read here and there when and where they have time...and the energy to put into it. It's alot easier at the end of the day to say a quick 'Congratulations' than to post on those threads where you have to read a long post and formulate a reply. Perhaps, had your post been read on a different day or time, you would have received the outcome you expected. I've seen this a dozen times on the various boards I've posted on over the years.

This post has been looked at quite a bit so I know that people have read it.

The thing that bothers me the most about this is that you guys are so ready to defend yourselves for not answering a post when I called you lame but you still feel that the original post is not worth acknowledging.

I have read post that discuss whether it is discrimination to ask if you would prefer a male or female therapist. I feel I wrote about an issue that should be give some thought and discussed. After all it is going to affect us all.

I posted this thread because now that we are facing a new day in the health care industry it would be time to bring this subject up again. If we don't we will be stuck with what ever the medical industry and insurance companies give us.

I did not intend to be rude however I see an opportunity to promote ourselves into profession that is respected. The first step is to treat each other with respect and and begin to address the real issues in the massage business. This forum seemed to me to be a good place to find people that want to move us forward. I guess I was wrong. If an insult to gets noticed and a real discussion of issues can be ignored.

So Sure Waa Waa Waa If that is what you think Ciao

[elsewhere]

The first step is to treat each other with respect and and begin to address the real issues in the massage business.

This is good advice. Perhaps you should try it.

This forum seemed to me to be a good place to find people that want to move us forward. I guess I was wrong. If an insult to gets noticed and a real discussion of issues can be ignored.

Actually "insults" on a forum like this are childish and since most of the people on this forum act like adults and treat each other with respect your insult stands out like a child having a tantrum in a grocery store. That's why it gets noticed. This forum does not encourage or support such immaturity and while your initial post didn't really warrant a lot of comments (it was more of a manifesto on your part) your descent into name calling does.

Sorry your ego got bet out of shape but in this forum as in real life it's not all about "you." You obviously need a lot of attention, didn't get it, so you insult the whole community and then flip us off on the way out like a petulant child. Way to rally your colleagues in the profession!

[Hans Fuhrubbin]

And yet you are more interested in a an exchange of insults and still have not addressed the original post which just proves my point.

[Blisss]

-- nevermind.

[elsewhere]

And yet you are more interested in a an exchange of insults and still have not addressed the original post which just proves my point.

Wrong again. I am not interested in an exchange of insults, not in the least, in fact this will be the last time I will ever address you (unlike you who says he's "leaving", makes a dramatic exit and then sticks around anyway to see what he's stirred up. I have never understood why people do that. Talk about "lame.")

I just wanted to illuminate you as you didn't seem to understand the escalation of tension you created by being rude.

The ideas in your your manifesto have been discussed in many threads over the long history of this forum. It was a nice manifesto and you expressed yourself eloquently. Unfortunately for you it will not be what is remembered about your brief stay here. Your attempts here to "unite" people in the profession have turned to alienation due to your disregard of accepted protocols of behavior. You even insulted Jason who extended a hand of support to you by offering sound advice. Very classy. I promise you Jason has no problems handling a "continuance thought." He's a very bright guy.

You really might want to think about what is is you are really trying to achieve as your words and your actions are not in synch.

[JasonE]

Hans -

How about a fresh start? It's easy to come into a new group and accidentally ruffle feathers before you get a feel for the social dynamic. I've been guilty of it; we're all adults and we can get over it. See the picture under my name? That's a reminder to myself!

Start by posting a little something about yourself as a person on the "Introductions and Birthdays" part of the forum. That's one way we get to know our new members.

Now, much of what you wrote in your first post on this thread is directly related to some of the issues raised in this controversial thread about the massage profession. Read the thread and particularly the paper that inspired the thread. You may then understand why your post didn't generate a ton of new discussion.

Also, notice that Elsewhere and I didn't get along so well in that thread. He and I don't often see eye-to-eye, but we have learned to respect one another and even get along. That he's the one that defended me from a perceived insult... says a LOT about his character and how civil discourse can change relationships over time.

We're almost all professionals here, and most of us are fairly bright. You'll probably have a good time here once you get to know people.

[Timedess]

I think the big thing is that while you do have some valid (and oft-agreed-with) points about the massage industry, you came into this forum as a completely new person, not even introducing yourself, and proceeded to "dump heavy stuff" on us, and then you got upset when we sat here and thought to ourselves, "Gee, lookit this person who has not even had the courtesy to introduce him/herself, yet who demands 'instant deep discussion' about stuff we already know.

A wise teacher once told me "nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care". That's how I felt when I read your initial post. Where's the relationship that would cause me to care what you think? There are far too many people who jump onto forums like this just to stir up trouble. Are you here to troll us, or to be a part of this community?

[pueppi]

How rude to call others lame, just because we don't all have enough time in the day to sit down and respond to each and every thing on this site. How rude not to consider that sometimes we come here, log in, get a client, come back to the computer some hours later and find we're logged off or the end of the day has drawn upon us, leaving us to turn off the computer for the night and --- oh, my, can it be??? we log in the next day, but the little buttons that tell us something was responded to on the forum are a shade different than the day before... leaving us to sometimes skip past things. Oh, what lame people we are.

I find it interesting it takes this post that calls you lame to get a reply.

Really? Interesting. Especially since it was the first time I saw the post. It's really a shame that I cannot be in all places or see all things at all times. You obviously don't understand the work dynamic many of us are living in.... ah, well.... it must be nice to have so much time on your hands....

PS: If you'll notice in this thread, it only took me from Sept. 2008 (when I wrote the thread) until May 2009, to actually follow up and add the information I intended to add. And THAT was my own thread!!!!!