MFR Wow!!!

Discussion of Myofascial Release techniques, both generic and modality specific.

Moderators: MarionFM, WaltFritz

Postby Breathe on Mon May 14, 2007 9:16 am

amypowerhands wrote:Don't we always learn the effectiveness of a modality when we learn it? Don't we usually hear what makes that modality different than others?

yes, and yes, hopefully.

Don't we usually hear what makes that modality better than others? Why would anyone learn and try to master a modality if they thought it was only just as effective as another?


No, and huh?

I've taken a couple of classes from very well-known instructors, one with a "patented" technique. Both were amazing classes that added greatly to my effectiveness as a therapist. Both explained very clearly why their methods were effective, and both were also forthcoming about the effectiveness of other methods.

Come on people, a little forgiveness and understanding goes a long way. This forum is starting to remind me of parenting politics or religion. It seems that some people are searching for quotes within other posts in order to pick apart, interpret and ridicule. I'm not sure this promotes open communication.


I'm not sure it promotes open communication when people tout one particular method as superior, not believing that anything else can be so effective. We have over 3000 members on this board, many of them highly effective therapists. The numbers don't lie, and we have lots of stories about "miraculous" recoveries through MT. Only a fraction of these are trained in JFB-MFR. Only a fraction trained in MAT, a few in ART, some in CST... and lots more alphabet soup, eh?

Perhaps some of the reaction (from me anyways,) comes from meeting therapists in real life who practice one of the trademarked techniques exclusively, and experiencing them behaving as if I am just a hobbyist, and an ineffective one at that.

In spite of the condescending attitude toward therapists who are not JFB-MFR, I actually learn quite a lot from reading even the posts that I challenge, (maybe especially those ones.) Unfortunately, with others, (as in goodtouch2's 2nd post in this thread- the one I responded to,) there is very little information about the technique, instead lots of insinuation and opinion about why the other techniques don't measure up.

I too want to learn as much as I can, but I don't think it happens with a situation where someone says "this is the ONLY effective way to treat the body."


I think you're awesome if you use MFR (JFB or not), sometimes, all the time, or never. I have true respect for all of you, and all of your opinions, and I really thank those who have risked ridicule to share them. I want to learn as much as I can. I am not learning anything from pick-apart posts.



And as far as the picking apart of posts... I do that because I have the memory of a gnat, so if I break out the pieces I want to respond to, and put them in each section, things are much more coherent, and I do less talking in circles.

I also think therapists who specialize very narrowly are awesome. I sent my mother to a Bowen therapist last fall when she could barely walk with her RA flare-up. The therapist had her going back up and down stairs in only 3 sessions. Pretty dramatic, and as far as I know, she didn't mix it up.

The interesting thing about JFB is that he DOES "mix it up." Though he stays within the covering of MFR, originally the use of MFR was done either with "direct" or "indirect" techniques. As I understand it, JFB blended the two methods together in his training program. This is what I was taught to do in my integrative NMT classes.

I'm sorry you are not learning anything from the "pick-apart" posts. Since this is a "discussion" board, I will probably continue to do them. (Again, this is why we need the ignore button. People who don't want to see any discussion can put me on ignore. Wouldn't be the first time... :lol: )
User avatar
Breathe
Registered Member
 
Posts: 1962
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:52 pm
Location: Oregon

Isometric shaking

Postby WaltFritz on Mon May 14, 2007 9:57 am

Amy,

Doing arm and leg pulls are a common part of my day. The first question that comes to me is whether you are holding the limb with an extended elbow or with a lsight bend at the elbow? If bent, try extending fully at the elbow and let the pull take the slack out of the shoulder girdle as well. The arm/leg pull is like water skiing; lean back slightly and with extended arms let your body wieght take up the slack. I also find that interlocking the fingers of my hands as I grasp the arm or leg allows me to grip less, with less fatigue. The saying "if it feels like you are working to hard...you are working too hard" that John states at the seminars certainly applies. Lighten up, gently engage the barrier, and feel, don't try to overpower.

When I first started this work, I was quite fatigued at the end of a day, much like most of the rest of you out there. Fairly quickly, though, I was able to tolerate much more until it is now just a part of what I do. No fatigue. Try some of these suggestions to see if they help you.
Walt Fritz, PT Pain Relief Center, Rochester, NY
http://www.myofascialresource.com
For therapists: MFRmail Newsletter (patient focused newsletter also available)
Foundations in Myofascial Release Seminars
Myofascial Release Mentoring Program
User avatar
WaltFritz
Moderator
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:14 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby BJB-LMP on Mon May 14, 2007 1:11 pm

amypowerhands wrote:I really thank those who have risked ridicule to share.


I really hope no one has felt ridiculed on this thread. Engaged in heartfelt discussion of experiences, sure, but my heart sinks thinking that an attempt to really understand another member could be felt as ridicule.
User avatar
BJB-LMP
Registered Member
 
Posts: 1694
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:37 am
Location: Pacific NW

Postby amypowerhands on Tue May 15, 2007 5:47 am

Thanks for the suggestions. Another question, if I may: when you do a leg or arm pull do you use specific stopping points or stop when you feel a restriction. For example I was taught to do a leg pull with the foot externally rotated (which is fairly tough to maintain) and the end point is when the clients hip is across their body in flexion. On some of the people their other leg starts to come off the table and I think it feels right to stop the pull their and hold. Honestly, I think I have answered my own question. I do still wonder about the rotation of the foot during the movement.
Sometimes I think I liked arm and leg pulls better before I learned myofascial release. However, I am determined to get better at it, as I see it as having so much potential. Though I am being careful not to let my determination interfere with my sensing of the tissue
As to the shaking - I will see what I can do to adjust my body mechanics, I already decided to start the leg pull while kneeling. I appreciate the call to strengthen, but am quite certain it is not a lack of strength. I am pretty well convinced it is some sort of systemic issue.
Thanks again folks for all of your posts - pick apart or not.
love it!
amypowerhands
Fresh Hands
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:43 am
Location: West-Central Wisconsin

Postby palpable on Tue May 15, 2007 7:08 am

amypowerhands wrote:Sometimes I think I liked arm and leg pulls better before I learned myofascial release.


Think about your intent with them. Arm and leg pulls can be great either from and MFR perspective or a ROM perspective or just to create space or many other reasons. You don't have to stick to MFR if something else is working better for you and the client. I am sure you already know that, but just wanted to throw it out there.

As for a starting point (i.e. external rotation), again think about the line of pull you want. An external rotation will pull differently than and internal rotation and both will have a different pull than no rotation.

HTH.
Move on as quickly as you can to people who get you and what you do. -Robert Chute
User avatar
palpable
Registered Member
 
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:58 pm
Location: northeast u.s.

Postby WaltFritz on Tue May 15, 2007 7:35 am

Just a quick note, the external rotation starting point is simply that. When the technique was taught, one needed a starting point. MFR taught me to listen to the body. Start and go where you need to go, there is no need to start in a certain position. Protocol based therapies work this way. MFR is not a protocol based therapy modality. Feel for the restriction and allow the arm/leg to unwind as it releases.
Walt Fritz, PT Pain Relief Center, Rochester, NY
http://www.myofascialresource.com
For therapists: MFRmail Newsletter (patient focused newsletter also available)
Foundations in Myofascial Release Seminars
Myofascial Release Mentoring Program
User avatar
WaltFritz
Moderator
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:14 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby MarionFM on Thu May 17, 2007 8:24 pm

I first "discovered" MFR when it was done to me by an osteopath. I knew immediately that I wanted to learn it.

First, I got Sean Riehl's videos - they are great and he packs a lot of information into them. (I got the VHS off Ebay, but I think the DVD's would be better as you can easily skip to the part you want to repeat.

Since then, I have been to 4 JB seminars. I think I have posted elsewhere that some of the more extreme unwinding put me off at first, but I have since seen the benefit of it in clients. You learn a lot in a short period of time at the seminars. Even after MFR 1, I was able to incorporate techniques into sessions, and the difference it made is amazing.

I have been able to shift very old problems, and resolve issues that a PT, MT and chiropractor had not so far been able to relieve.

1. Abdominal pain for 40 years, cleared.

2. Unable to look over his shoulder since a car accident almost 30 years ago, can now.

3. Restoration of shoulder range of motion after a 3 year old fall on a shoulder. (You gave me back golf - and my life. Why didn't the other therapists do that for me before?)

4. Can now get out of bed in the mornings without rolling onto the floor first.

5. Cancelled their carpal tunnel surgery.

6. Over 18 months of sessions, an 81 year old with a severe double scoliosis has now been told that she is straighter that she was 10 years ago.

I could go on and on with examples as "miracles" happen almost daily. Did I mention that I love this work?!?

The most typical client response? "How did you you DO that? You hardly touched me." I just tell them that I have magic fingers.
User avatar
MarionFM
Moderator-S.S.S
 
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:47 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Postby AGWLMT on Fri May 18, 2007 7:03 pm

amypowerhands wrote:One of those questions is this - Do you use arm and leg pulls? Do you experience fatigue while performing them? How do you handle it if you do? I am really having difficulty with this, as holding an isometric contraction makes me shake. It is of course made worse if I am dehydrated, but happens even when I'm plenty hydrated. It happens all over my body no matter what muscle is holding the isometric contraction. I am currently trying some nutritional supplementation and guidelines. I would appreciate any feedback, about how to maintain the pulls, or about shaking with isometric contractions. I will post the isometric contraction question in the techniqes forum also, if this is not the appropriate place for such a quesiton.



Amy, from another ami on the board, When I first started JFB MFR, I was as sore and tired as when I was in massage school. Remember there are different kinds of strength, and endurance. MFR uses endurance. You will gain the strength. When I teach my small intro at the massage school, i often use the analogy of a car's accelerator. You can get the car to speed and let off the gas a slight percentage and still maintain your speed. The same can be said for bodywork. You can use less 'strength' than you think.

Like Walt said, and others, just feel into the body and let it guide you. Stop if it seems right. You won't hurt the client. I do love your statement about not letting your determination get in the way. Determination has a way of doing just that....good you see it!

And if you ever start cross hand releases.. you will have awesome pecs! I can adjust my two sons back if I care to with a bear hug these days! ;)

Also, your shaking may mean leg or arm pulls would be good therapy for you! sometimes techniques reflect what is inside us.
Last edited by AGWLMT on Fri May 18, 2007 7:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Ami

Greater Chicago area
User avatar
AGWLMT
Registered Member
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:00 pm

Postby AGWLMT on Fri May 18, 2007 7:05 pm

Marion,

yeah a lot of us have those stories to tell.

Thank you for sharing yours.
I usually just smile and say I know it is like magic, isn't it?
then thank them for being there and doing most of the work!
Ami

Greater Chicago area
User avatar
AGWLMT
Registered Member
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:00 pm

Postby AGWLMT on Sat May 19, 2007 5:45 am

Blisss wrote: I don't like the superior tone surrounding the unwinding experience.
Maestra wrote:If you're open to releasing old traumas then yes, you sometimes can have a dramatic unwinding. But if you're not ready for it, then someone else can't make it happen. If I may quote John Barnes from his book, Healing Ancient Wounds: The Renegade's Wisdom ... "Myofascial Unwinding helps bring this information to a conscious level, allowing patients to reexperience it and let go, if they chose."


There are two things I disagree with about this statement:
1. That unwinding is the only way to "let something go."
2. That if clients don't unwind, it's because they're "not ready", as if they're amateur clients compared to the professional clients who have reached the unwinding level of treatment.

This world is a wide & varied place. There are numerous methods for letting things go; unwinding is just one method.


Blisss- I had to come back and find your post after I stumbled upon all the new posts last night. I had so much I wanted to add to help you clarify this.
I know Maestra really explained it well, but I wanted to add my experience and see if it helped.

First,You are correct, there are lots of methods of letting go. right. exactly, but we are talking about MFR here. it is so cumbersome to always add that caveat on to every statement. We MFR therapists all know and believe that. Often we have personally been so profoundly affected from this work, where no other work managed to do so, that we are very sold on it. I am sure that would be the same for another person/another modality that had so much positive response. The same goes for the negative impact a modality may have had on a person....just try to get them to try it again!

I wanted to address the concept of being ready for releasing something.
This can on the surface look like someone is an 'amateur client' where the person who is unwinding and releasing is 'professional'.

I am gonna move a bit into my experience to illustrate my view of being ready... My life was not safe at one point for me to let go. It had nothing to do with any therapist touching me. Would a more advanced therapist have managed to kick the pebble? Not sure. But I do know it simply wasn't safe. The changes I needed, changed EVERYTHING. Internally I knew that. I needed to be ready. There was many smaller less dramatic releases (letting go) that made the ultimate shift something I could survive. All the smaller releases, that didn't just come in sessions, made the quantum shift, when I finally surrendered to it, something I believed I could survive.

Being safe enough to let go of something, does have to do with the therapist, but that is one part of the equation. If I had clung stubbornly to the concept that if I thought my past choices were right, the life I had was right, I would have said the glimpses of what was needed in treatment was just ridiculous. I may have said the work was useless.

I have had in practice, people say they had nothing to release, only later to find that wasn't so. Some things are buried deeply and need 'uncovering', as in my case. Some times the timing isn't right. Think of the concept " for everything there is season". All things happen at just the right time. Most MFR therapists could look you in the face and say to you- you just weren't ready and you would understand that there is no superiority meant at all. Internet cannot get that across!

well, this is sort of rambling, but I am gonna hit submit anyway!
Ami

Greater Chicago area
User avatar
AGWLMT
Registered Member
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:00 pm

Previous

Return to MFR Techniques

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot]