The worst experiences I have had as a male MT

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thegreatone
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The worst experiences I have had as a male MT

Post by thegreatone » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:48 pm

HI

Being a male MT really isn't a big issue where I work (at a spa). But once in a while I encounter problems.

One time I took a male client in, went through our interview and left the room to allow him to get changed. I went in the employee room to file the paperwork, and when I went back to the massage room to start, the client was nowhere to be found. LOL!! He left because he decided he didn't want a male massage therapist. But he didn't say anything to me about it at all. He just up and left without warning. LOL!!!

Another time I went to get a client, and somehow when he booked the appointment, he misunderstood that he was getting a male therapist. So when I introduced myself, he didn't want the massage, and he left. But before he left, our secretary decided to give him a spa credit of $50. I was mad because I didn't think he deserved a credit just because he didn't want a male therapist.

Sometimes I walk in to the waiting room where there's a bunch of people and when I walk out I can hear them talking, snickering, and/or laughing because I'm a man in a spa. I don't really care though. One time I heard a group of women talking about how they hope they don't get the man. When I went to introduce myself to my client, she said "Oh no, my worst nightmare. lol!" She was more joking than truly uncomfortable. But since I am cool as a fricking cucumber, I didn't acknowledge her comment whatsoever. Afterwards, she felt embarassed and said she didn't mean to come off that way. That lady still kind of pisses me off when I think about it. GOD!!! How rude can you be?!?!???

I have heard other therapists say that husbands sometimes get upset if their wife has a male therapist. But in my experience, the men more often want to pass their wife off to me, so the husband doesn't have to be massaged by a man.

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Post by holistichealer » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:52 am

Its experiences like yours, which are none of your fault that make me want to do this more to make us, as men more accepted in this field. First of all, those clients obviously are very immature while I am sure others had legitemate fears. I think with regards to men it can be a few things, one of them being that they might be homophobic and think that getting massaged by a man is somehow meant to be sexual (which anyone in this profession or getting into it knows that 99% of the time that is definately not the case.)

I also think that there are people who are just umcomfortable for various reasons and we as males have to respect that. On the other hand, we also need to know our limits and if we feel uncomfortable know that we have the right to say that we feel uncomfortable without making the client feel bad.

I know this turned into a long answer to your post but I have been thinking about this same issue since I will be starting in the fall. I guess the best bet is to keep positive and know that you are a good MT and that not everyone male or female feels that way. Best of luck :D

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Re: The worst experiences I have had an a male MT

Post by makingachange » Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:59 am

i used to work in a spa - we had a constant turnover of male therapists b/c of the same reasons you mentioned. i was always horrified at the things people would say infront of these well-educated, compassionate, strong men, as if they weren't in the room. and yes - they can be RUDE!

i do have a client whose husband sent her to me b/c he was very uneasy with her seeing a male therapist. we talked about how much this upset her - she'd been with that therapist for ten years before their relationship began. they are in the process of a divorce now.

the spa credit thing is total BS. i think that's wrong too. and we had our share of men turning around and leaving. it's frustrating, it isn't right and i don't know if theres anything we can do about it. fortunately, now in private practice, we don't have that problem. the clients that we have wouldn't care either way. they just want relief. i'd actually LOVE to have a male therapist on staff!

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Post by Grant » Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:11 am

The next time someone says "Oh, my worst nightmare", smile and say, "Oh, just wait till you wake up tomorrow morning" Then give that knowing/kidding smile. It will break the ice, and get the attention back to serving THEM and off the therapist.

G
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Post by thegreatone » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:15 pm

Grant wrote:The next time someone says "Oh, my worst nightmare", smile and say, "Oh, just wait till you wake up tomorrow morning" Then give that knowing/kidding smile. It will break the ice, and get the attention back to serving THEM and off the therapist.

G
I would never say that because at first I misinterpreted the comment BIG TIME!! So the woman probably would as well. LOL!!!!

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Re: The worst experiences I have had an a male MT

Post by PainFree Musician » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:14 am

thegreatone wrote:HI
When I went to introduce myself to my client, she said "Oh no, my worst nightmare. lol!" She was more joking than truly uncomfortable. But since I am cool as a fricking cucumber, I didn't acknowledge her comment whatsoever. Afterwards, she felt embarassed and said she didn't mean to come off that way. That lady still kind of pisses me off when I think about it. GOD!!! How rude can you be?!?!???
My response would have been, "Well, then you must sleep very well if I'm your worst nightmare. I'm an insomniac and my nightmares usually involve mutant chickens, flaming carrots and space aliens. Shall we proceend now?"

I don't know if I could have hid my sense of humor with that one.
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Post by Gaspen » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:01 am

Fortunately, I've never had the experience of a client walking out. Though I've not overheard a comment in the waiting area, I have heard the other side of a phone conversation - you know the ones, where the client's not comfortable having a male therapist and then has to wait a day or two for an opening with a female therapist. The only thing I can say is that these clients are missing out on a new therapeutic experience.
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Post by Vision001 » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:21 pm

I worked for a while at a chiro office where the receptionist used to say "Do you mind if I schedule you with Steve? He's our male therapist." She really didn't even understand what was wrong with that. When people would schedule, as they generally did, she just seemed amazed.

We had a talk ;-) It got better.
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Post by calmhead247 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:11 am

I worked in a 5th ave spa in NYC and have come across this situation all too many times. At first I was also bothered by the comments and the looks of horror and even tried to convince the clients i'm the same pair of hands as the female they could have gotten.

After a while I just accepted that some people are just uncomfortable with having a male therapist and thats okay. Just the same with some people prefering a male or female doctor.

As far as the husband rather having his wife get massaged by a male. I have had the experience where the man was insistant on having both him and his wife massaged by a female and I even saw both husband and wife walk out on an entire day of services because HE didn't want either to be massaged by a male. Laugh it off, people are nutty.

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Post by shivashiva » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:54 am

As far as asking "Do you mind if I schedule you with a male therapist?" I can see both sides.

I worked in one spa where they never asked and no one ever cared. That was my first experience and so I thought that was the norm.

I have since worked at places where sometimes they asked and sometimes they didn't, and I think it depends a lot on the demographic. The place where no one cared was a little bungalow type hotel in a remote area of Hawaii where a lot of "new agey" type people came, and people from the Bay Area. They didn't care. Here where we get lots of tourists coming from Texas, the women look at YOU like you're crazy to think they would get a massage from a male. (I'm female by the way, but I've observed this by working side by side with males).

Just because it's "wrong" for someone to not want to get massaged by a male doesn't mean that spas should force them to. As the calmhead247's example shows, people will just walk out and I have seen that happen as well.

I have gotten many massages from male therapists though many of them were either my fellow students, or students of mine while I was teaching. When I once went to a spa, I got a male therapist who not only chatted the whole time (without my encouragement), but also made comments about my body (how toned it was, how I was in great shape, etc.) that made me uncomfortable. I know it can be hard to get a good massage "out there", male or female, but it made me seriously consider requesting a female next time I am at a spa. If I'm paying close to $100 for my treatment, I don't want to have to deal with that energy.

I know from reading your posts on here that many male therapists are working HARD to improve the reputation and professionalism of male therapists. I also worked as co-lead therapist with a male at a spa. The only reason he wasn't lead by himself was because he was male. And he was THE MOST respectful, kind, gentle, skilled therapist I have met in a while, maybe ever. But there are still male therapists out there who will lean their body/privates up against their client and ruin it for everyone else. That woman (happened to a friend of mine) will say "I will never get a massage from a guy again!" and from then on, she'll request a female therapist without having to be asked.

Additionally many men and women have traumas from their past that involve men. This should be respected.
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Post by Vision001 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:26 am

I really don't think women are understanding just how offensive the question is to the male therapist. Somehow we would be horrified if we put in any other designation "do you mind our (black/mexican/redhead/albino) therapist?" I'm sure you don't have to look too far to find people in some parts of this area who would object to some of the above and I'm sure you could find some that have honestly been robbed, mugged or raped by same as well as by caucasians. I have plenty of respect for those issues. We still don't get to say to our employees (nor should we want to) "You've just got to understand that some people don't want a __________ person working on them. It could cost me business."

If you are female reading this and think it is less offensive than I have just laid out and that I, as a male, simply need to understand that men are lesser animals then we have no grounds for discussion. Improper public attitudes are not changed by nurturing them.
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Post by shivashiva » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:21 am

I think I understand just how offensive this question is to YOU. However, I know for a fact that while you may speak for many male therapists, you do not speak for all of them.

By giving people a choice of who they get massaged by, we are not "nuturing" improper public attitudes. In my experience we do not change public attitude by forcing people to do what they don't want to do. I have seen a male therapist talk a woman into a massage from him after she first refused, and it didn't look like a sucessful thing when she came out. She sort of had to say yes, because he put her on the spot and when she came out she looked flustered and nervous -- not the normal yummy, hair messed up "I just got a massage" look. My guess (and that it purely is) was that she had some traumatic experience in the past, either with a man, or SIMPLY WITH BEING TOUCHED and this did not fix it with her.

from: http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/stats.htm#Child
In the adult retrosptective study, victimization was reported by 27 percent of the women and 16 percent of the men. The median age for the occurrence of reported abuse was 9.9 for boys and 9.6 for girls. Victimization occurred before age eight for 22 percent of boys and for 23 percent of girls. Most of the abuse of both boys and girls was by offenders 10 or more years older than their victims. Girls were more likely than boys to disclose the abuse. Forty-two percent of the women and thirty-three percent of the men reported never having disclosed the experience to anyone.
Source: Finkelhor et al., 1990.
Nowhere have I even insinuated that men are lesser animals. What I am saying is that there are larger social issues that are creating this reaction, issues that are very different from racism. Racism is when you PREJUDGE someone based on their color. While to those of you who know you are good therapists, this may feel like prejudice to you. HOWEVER: People who have been sexually abused as children and still have issues over it may KNOW for a fact that they wouldn't be able to relax no matter how great you are. Because they have issues. They project and act like it's your fault. But it's not. It's just that they have issues. And they shouldn't have to have a massage with a guy.

If someone has been mugged or raped by an ethnic person and is sufficiently traumatized, they may have a panic reaction when they are near or TOUCHED by a person of that ethnicity. They also shouldn't have to have a massage from them. I think this percentage of people is WAY smaller than those who have been sexually abused as children, which is why you don't see it very often.

My guess is that most of these people (those who have been traumatized through touch) stay away from massage all together. But sometimes someone buys them a gift certificate, or their girlfriend convinces them to come for a "day at the spa."

I'm also not saying that every person who intitially is hesitant about getting a massage from a male has been traumatized. I have seen many people hesitate briefly, then go ahead and get the massage and have a wonderful time. That is one reason I think the person booking the massages should be well schooled about how to ask or if to ask.

I think males should be respectful and understanding, when that 25% of women finds out they are getting a massage from a man and balks. Don't try to convince her, and don't be insulted. Just be available and gentle and maybe that will assure them, maybe not. Not under your control and not a reflection of you as a therapist.

But it should not be insulting or offensive to you.
Shiva
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Post by Vision001 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:05 am

But it should not be insulting or offensive to you.
It is.

At 52 my wife is my partner in everything we do together and are able to maintain equal balanced lives which are our own. This kind of change from the standard relationship which was prevalent when I grew up is no accident. People fought for it and it is a victory for both sexes. I joined in with the National Organization for Women and pushed hard, despite derision from some of my peers, for things such as the ill fated ERA and balance in general. I expect nothing less from my sisters.

If someone had a problem with someone of any ethnicity or gender and does not want to be worked on by that "type" of person then it is something to be respected and understood. It is not something that should be asked up front. That pre assumes an attitude and many people respond to it with surprise but wondering if it is something they should be thinking about. Nobody is asking anyone to drag anyone screaming and kicking into a room. I am a professional, I respect anyone's right not to avail themselves of my services, but I don't accept that it is not offensive to put the question out there in the first place.

When that question was dropped at the front desk nobody exploded and ran out the door and the vast majority walked out with that same messed up hair, goofy grin, and problem addressed look that we want to see.

It is not all right and will never be all right to ask without any prior reason "do you mind our _______________ therapist?"
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Post by shivashiva » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:22 am

I totally respect your position and mostly agree.

I think because you haven't worked in a spa (?) you may not totally understand. If the receptionist DOESN'T ask, then it is not only the spa that is out the money, but the male therapist will be sitting on his butt as well. I actually used to agree with you wholeheartedly and argued with the receptionist to never ask such a question. Until I saw what happened when repeatedly people weren't told the gender of their therapist and and all three parties walked away dissatisfied: Client, Therapist, Spa. Yeah, it doens't happen that often, but often enough that my male friend INSISTED that each client know the gender of the therapist when he was the therapist.

I don't advocate a receptionist saying "Do you mind our male therapist?" I agree that kind of question sets everyone up for the client to say "Of course, I'd rather have a female." It assumes there is a reason they should mind.

I think something more appropriate would be "Okay, so I've got you booked for a 1pm Deep Tissue Massage with Steve. Please arrive about 10 minutes early to fill out our paperwork. Do you need directions?" with a very straightforward and non-questioning tone of voice. This can be done for every appointment, whether your therapist is male, female, or whatever.

And to clarify, I was saying it shouldn't be insulting or offensive that some people don't want a massage from a male. Now I (think I) understand that what you think is offensive is asking "Do you mind our _________ therapist?" Which I do agree, that wording is not appropriate.

Thanks for being nice to me! After I posted that I thought I might get flamed. :oops:
Shiva
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Post by moose_goose » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:37 pm

I posted this in another thread:
I'm looking at different spa and salon sites in my area, and came across this. I thought it was worded very nicely!
Quote:
Reservations
We recommend making spa reservations four to six weeks in advance, to assure desired appointments. A major credit card is required to guarantee all reservations. Our staff consists of both male and female professionals. You will be scheduled with either, unless a preference is stated.
viewtopic.php?t=10588

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Post by Vision001 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:44 pm

Our staff consists of both male and female professionals. You will be scheduled with either, unless a preference is stated.
Our staff consists of black, white, asian, and latino professionals. You will be scheduled with one at random, unless a preference is stated.

Does that make sense? Is that inoffensive?

In many areas of the country there were separate eating areas in restaurants for various races and when it was legislated out I know a lot of people complained and that business was lost. What is right is right. If we can't do anything else then I would suggest that you people who don't care about anything other than a professional working on them reverse things and decline services from establishments which differentiate in this way. if it takes economic impact - and it shouldn't- then I will refuse service from any place that gives me a "choice" which I did not request.

I don't have a single bit of a problem with someone not wanting massage from me because I am a male. I have a problem with our own contributing to this. I am amazed that there needs to be a discussion of how to properly "warn" people and that anything else is some sort of ambush.

Civil rights, as I remember growing up, were not too popular with a lot of people. Right is right even when it is hard. For people who ostensibly work on people as though they were humans and all cared for and equal under our nurturing hands, we sure seem to be a group who contain a lot of members who differentiate strongly. I don't care who or what works on me. None of us should unless we have traumatic reason which should be fully understood. I am not a male when I work on my client. I am an extension of that person serving their needs and it is an honor to do so.

When there was a smoking ban enforced on restaurants here in Daytona there were owners who complained that they would lose a lot of business. For a while they did. Things don't change unless you change them.
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Post by pueppi » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:28 pm

Vision001 wrote:I am amazed that there needs to be a discussion of how to properly "warn" people and that anything else is some sort of ambush.
I'm not. It affects our profession and we are affected by people not wanting a male therapist. Unfortunate, but true.

I work with my husband. I'd like to say we have the equal amounts of work on a daily basis, but the fact is, many clients want me (the female) for their session. It doesn't mean he doesn't have clients, but we have run into the occasional person who didn't know there was a male therapist in our office and were actually distressed to find out they were scheduled with a male (my husband).

I like to not have situations like the one described above, arise. So, if I am scheduling someone, I do make sure to take the appropriate steps to inform them of who is in the office, our specialties and who may be the best fit for the problem - but if the client is more worried about the gender, then we do what we can to accomodate.

I think moose-goose has a good option for those who are interested in letting clientele know a little more about the place of business and it cuts down on having a "client issue" upon arrival.
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Post by shivashiva » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:09 pm

Vision001 wrote:I don't care who or what works on me.
I think this may be a barrier to you seeing the other side. If you've never had the experience of being made uncomfortable (sexually or otherwise) by your massage therapist, I don't see how you could.

It's cannot see how it's a civil rights issue.
Vision001 wrote:None of us should unless we have traumatic reason which should be fully understood.
See my above statistics. Fully ONE THIRD of the population has this.

I am a female and a massage teacher, and I thought I didn't care who worked on me. I got a massage from a male therapist who acted in innappropriately. It wasn't simply because he was male, but because of the things he said, which brought a sexual vibe to the massage. I know not all male therapists are like this because, as I've said before, I have had MANY great massages from Fantastic male therapists, who, like you treat a human like a human. Bravo.

The reason it is not a civil rights issue is because men are not being discriminated against. Instead, clients are choosing who they are comfortable receiving a massage from based on their prior experience. And that experience is that 30% of people have been abused and carry trauma because of it.

Back in the day when civil rights was hardcore, black people were discriminated against because we were encouraged to fear and hate them, so that we could feel comfortable enslaving them. In this case, men are being "discriminated against" because people are uncomfortable laying on a table, naked, and having a man put their hands all over them, because the last time that happened it was severely traumatic.

Men are not being abused here. Men and women as a whole are slowly healing from past traumas.

I also, like pueppi, think it's unfortunate that the great male massage therapists that I know simply don't get as many clients as females in a spa setting. But they do much better in a therapeutic setting, so it seems.

As pueppi says, clients can become distressed when faced with a male massage therapist. They don't want the massage, but they feel socially awkward and embarrassed to say no. We are here to help them relax and let go of some of that stress, not create more of it. Women also will choose a female gynecologist. Do you see male gynecologists yelling civil rights?
Shiva
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Post by Vision001 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:16 pm

I am not saying it is a civil rights issue. I am saying that some hard things were done in those days to do what was right whether it cost some business or not. I also tried to point out that there were an awful lot of people who would have chosen a person by race if not mandated otherwise.

You have people on this board who are all up in arms because there are prostitutes out there who call themselves massage therapists and yet some of those some people don't understand how it upsets professional male therapists to be told we "have to understand" because there are so many bad ones out there.

When a person expresses concern about whether one of my former students or fellow therapists can provide enough pressure because they are a girl I set them straight. I expect the same.

Because you can't see how I could see another side doesn't mean I can't. When I was 17 I had two very physical and 1 very



You know what . forget it. You're right.

I'm done with this.
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Post by jacqueline » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:20 pm

when I was in school and we were doing clinicals, we NEVER asked "would you like a male or female" because out teachers didn't think it mattered..However, when someone asked, "can I have a female?" they would explain that the males are very good massage therapists and that it's a wrong assumption to think a male is any different..etc..and in my own oppinion..I met my husband in massage school and he is a very good massage therapist..I think men give excellent massages..

wish people would get over they're "assumptions" and fears of men massage therapists...sorry you have to go through it, unfair..:(

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Post by Rose of Sharon » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:30 pm

I think we need to be sure people understand that this is a legitimate profession and that both genders are quite capable of being legitimate professionals. I would never "warn" someone that they might get booked with a male. I'd state the name of the MT being scheduled and say how wonderful (if that was my experience) this person is, and leave it at that. I trust the general public to already know if they have issues, and to bring that up themselves if need be. Accommodating someone's request is one thing, but suggesting they might want to request a different MT is a problem.

There are "bad ones" in any profession, of either gender. The only unprofessional MT I've ever been to was a female. It never occurred to me to start requesting males. I just never went back to her.

We need to present our profession as a profession.

I *can* understand that in a spa situation, having a client walk out is a problem to the MT and to the spa. I can understand stating the therapists' name at the time of making the appointment - and I expect that at my doctor's office, too, btw, and it's not because I want a female, but because I want to know who I will see - but couldn't a switch of therapists be made, if someone says they prefer a different one? I know a few people who work in spas and things get switched around regularly to accommodate special requests. (though it is requesting a particular MT, not requesting to NOT see a particular MT.)
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Post by shivashiva » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:58 pm

ummm....gee....I knew we were having a heated discussion. But did I cross the line somewhere?

I didn't mean to run you off, Vision001, if that's what happened.
Rose of Sharon wrote:
I *can* understand that in a spa situation, having a client walk out is a problem to the MT and to the spa. I can understand stating the therapists' name at the time of making the appointment - and I expect that at my doctor's office, too, btw, and it's not because I want a female, but because I want to know who I will see - but couldn't a switch of therapists be made, if someone says they prefer a different one? I know a few people who work in spas and things get switched around regularly to accommodate special requests. (though it is requesting a particular MT, not requesting to NOT see a particular MT.)
I basically agree with Sharon here. If she says it better then read what she is saying. That's what I think, too.

What I think is interesting is that not one person has addressed the sexual abuse issue that I am bringing up. Sharon has a bit, by saying that the general public should know what issues they have and bring it up if necessary. But some people have sounded ABSOLUTELY ASTONISHED when they learned we had a male therapist at the spa where I worked. Like they didn't even consider it a possiblity. People need to know. I don't think you can assume the general public knows much.

I have not once said or even implied that men are less capable or worse therapists than women. Warning someone that they are getting booked with a male has nothing to do with their ability or professionalism.

IT HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT MANY WOMEN HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY ABUSED BY MEN IN THEIR CHILDHOOD AND MAY NOT BE COMFORTABLE HAVING A MAN TOUCH THEIR NAKED BODY ALL OVER. IN FACT IN MAY RE-TRAUMATIZE THEM, NO MATTER HOW PROFESSIONAL THE MAN IS.

Can I say it any plainer?

ps. yes, in spas sometimes people can switch around so that everyone is happy. But if it's a small establishment, sometimes there is not another therapist available. Or not another client available for the male to massage. In larger spas I'm sure it's quite easy.
Shiva
O friend, understand. / The body is like the ocean, rich with hidden treasures. / Open your innermost chamber / And light its lamp - Mirabai
Blue Lotus Day Spa, Ruidoso, NM | Residential Yoga Teacher Trainings & Bali Yoga Retreats

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maestra
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Post by maestra » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:09 pm

shivashiva wrote:
What I think is interesting is that not one person has addressed the sexual abuse issue that I am bringing up. Sharon has a bit, by saying that the general public should know what issues they have and bring it up if necessary.

IT HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT MANY WOMEN HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY ABUSED BY MEN IN THEIR CHILDHOOD AND MAY NOT BE COMFORTABLE HAVING A MAN TOUCH THEIR NAKED BODY ALL OVER. IN FACT IN MAY RE-TRAUMATIZE THEM, NO MATTER HOW PROFESSIONAL THE MAN IS.
I guess I don't understand Shiva, why you feel your position has not been supported. I think the reason it hasn't been commented on is because there are members who feel that it is a valid point. There are men and women who have been sexually abused. And maybe no one else felt a need to say anything about it because you already had.
I will however link you to a couple of older threads which might be helpful to you.

Trauma massage:
http://www.bodyworkonline.com/forum/vie ... php?t=2353

Discrimination (kinda long):
http://www.bodyworkonline.com/forum/vie ... c&start=25

Vision001 / Steve,
Please, don't stay "gone"...
Realize that people are not always going to agree, and that just because not everybody agrees with you at this very moment doesn't mean that there are not others who support your stance and the work you do.
While I can see Shiva's point, I can see yours too. I am just not sure what the right answer is... for anyone.
People here at BWOL are generally very supportive, but remember that each of us views a situation through the lens of our own lives or experiences. We are not saying that your point is not valid, but merely to try and help us see issues from all sides.
That is why the Male Practitioner's Perspective section of the forum is here. The moderators and admins felt that this is a real issue which deserved an area of the forum to create a real and lasting dialogue. Please return to continue the discussion, because we educate the readers of BWOL (be they fellow MTs, students, or the general public) with each post we make).
We appreciate your comments regarding these topics.
“Try to be like the turtle -- at ease in your own shell” - Bill Copeland

jasond
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Post by jasond » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:59 am

I understand both sides of the coin. Interesting thing to note at my Massage school, Mueller. The intake form form for the clinic clearly states that they cannot choose the sex of their student bodyworker. But hey you give up some things for a $30 dollar session :lol:

Jason
Release your Spirit through Bodywork

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shivashiva
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Post by shivashiva » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:25 am

Thanks maestra. I guess the reason I felt my position wasn't supported was because the people besides Vision001 who responded (jacqueline and RoS) both made mention of people assuming men are "bad" or not as good. Because I saw what I was saying as SO different from that I felt a little bit like people were either ignoring what I was saying or not quite getting it. And as you can see, I think it's important.

I, too don't want Steve to leave. :( I think it's important to have an open dialogue, and really, if I did something out of line, someone PM me and tell me. Because I want to have civil discussions on here. I know I get excited sometimes and I don't want that to get in the way of productive exchanges.

I'll check out those threads.
Shiva
O friend, understand. / The body is like the ocean, rich with hidden treasures. / Open your innermost chamber / And light its lamp - Mirabai
Blue Lotus Day Spa, Ruidoso, NM | Residential Yoga Teacher Trainings & Bali Yoga Retreats

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