Adulation of military and Vets

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Adulation of military and Vets

Postby holley on Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:38 am

The level of adulation I hear and see towards the military and Vets makes me uncomfortable . Any military establishment poses a potential threat to the citizens of a country; it is, like fire "a dangerous servant and a fearful master". Homeland security accommodated the Presidential order banning entry from selected countries until stayed by the court. What will the military do, if ordered ?


This article somewhat addresses these concerns: http://www.salon.com/2016/03/23/an_army ... er_before/
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Re: Adulation of military and Vets

Postby RelaxandRejuvenate on Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:57 am

holley wrote:The level of adulation I hear and see towards the military and Vets makes me uncomfortable . Any military establishment poses a potential threat to the citizens of a country; it is, like fire "a dangerous servant and a fearful master". Homeland security accommodated the Presidential order banning entry from selected countries until stayed by the court. What will the military do, if ordered ?


This article somewhat addresses these concerns: http://www.salon.com/2016/03/23/an_army ... er_before/


Nothing, you moron

The military does not act on US soil unless in defense of an attack.
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Re: Adulation of military and Vets

Postby holley on Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:59 am

R&R, it's not like you to be so rude. Are you OK ?

Are you saying the Military has not and cannot be used against Americans in the US ?
Facts show otherwise.

The military has been used on US soil a couple of times I can think of offhand: 1.The veterans bonus march on Washington after WW 1. 2.In suppressing the coal miners strike, most notoriously the Ludlow Massacre of 1914. &, 3. Kent State. Cursory research shows easily another two dozen examples

Governments under siege frequently resort to military intervention to maintain power.
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Re: Adulation of military and Vets

Postby pueppi on Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:33 am

I get that this "Off the Table" section is for it's for things that aren't bodywork related. But since this is a bodywork forum and not a political one, maybe members should strive to post more about bodywork and less about politics. That would be one way to keep the irritation down.

There are many political forums out there for these kinds of conversations to take place, if that is where your heart lies.
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Re: Adulation of military and Vets

Postby RelaxandRejuvenate on Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:18 am

holley wrote:R&R, it's not like you to be so rude. Are you OK ?

Are you saying the Military has not and cannot be used against Americans in the US ?
Facts show otherwise.

The military has been used on US soil a couple of times I can think of offhand: 1.The veterans bonus march on Washington after WW 1. 2.In suppressing the coal miners strike, most notoriously the Ludlow Massacre of 1914. &, 3. Kent State. Cursory research shows easily another two dozen examples

Governments under siege frequently resort to military intervention to maintain power.


The ludlow massacre and Kent STate shootings were by the respective national guards of those states -- NOT the US Military. They are different entitites.

The Bonus March -- as well as the integration of little rock schools under the supervision of the US ARMY -- are covered un the posse commitatus statute which prohibits the deployment of the US military in domestic matters except under extreme exceptions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
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Re: Adulation of military and Vets

Postby holley on Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:18 am

The National Guard serves a dual role. Most of the time, it’s under the control of individual states, with the state governor acting as commander in chief. However, the president can activate the National Guard, place it under federal control and use it on American soil.
Either way it is military, not a fraternal organization or ballet company.

Is this true R & R or am I missing something ?
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Recent leaked memo

Postby holley on Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:35 am

"A general alarm has risen in response to the recently leaked draft memo from Department of Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly outlining steps for the deployment of National Guard units, as well as other measures, across vast regions of the country to hunt down and detain those suspected of being undocumented immigrants to the United States.
The Trump administration has sought to distance itself from the memo, pointing out that it is a Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and not a White House document. While this only raises further questions about the relationship of the White House to the rest of the federal executive, it also fails to put to rest concern over the potential use of the National Guard against millions of members of our society. Furthermore, it raises profound questions about who commands the Guard, whom the Guard serves, and beyond these, the role of military organizations in either strengthening or undermining democracy in the 21st century."
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Re: Recent leaked memo

Postby RelaxandRejuvenate on Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:07 pm

holley wrote:"A general alarm has risen in response to the recently leaked draft memo from Department of Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly outlining steps for the deployment of National Guard units, as well as other measures, across vast regions of the country to hunt down and detain those suspected of being undocumented immigrants to the United States.
The Trump administration has sought to distance itself from the memo, pointing out that it is a Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and not a White House document. While this only raises further questions about the relationship of the White House to the rest of the federal executive, it also fails to put to rest concern over the potential use of the National Guard against millions of members of our society. Furthermore, it raises profound questions about who commands the Guard, whom the Guard serves, and beyond these, the role of military organizations in either strengthening or undermining democracy in the 21st century."



Just becasue you keep repeating a lie, does not make it true....


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... mo/517149/
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Recent leaked memo

Postby holley on Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:11 pm

It is always a delight to share a search for truth. I read the Atlantic article you were kind enough to post and found no contradiction to the posted "recent leaked memo" . Would you plz point out the "lie I keep repeating " so the truth will-out.
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Re: Adulation of military and Vets

Postby holley on Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:17 am

"If military actions and weapons had functioned as conflict-resolution methods there would have been peace in the world a long time ago,"

Swedish Peace and Arbitration Society, president Anna Ek.
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Re: Adulation of military and Vets

Postby RelaxandRejuvenate on Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:12 am

And if hugs and positive energy and negotiation had functioned as conflict-resolution methods there would never be war....
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Law not War (hugs optional)

Postby holley on Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:23 pm

When a dispute occurs between New York and New Jersey, there is no war. No cruise missiles rain down on Trenton and no troops march across the GeorgeWashington Bridge. When such disputes occur hugs and positive energy may be exchanged and typically there are negotiations.

" In order to have a peaceful world, you need three basic components. You need laws to define what is permissible and impermissible. You need courts to settle disputes amicably or to hold wrongdoers accountable. And, you need a system of effective enforcement. Those three components—laws, courts, and enforcement—are the basic foundations for every society, whether it be a city, or a town, or a village, or a nation, or the world. If you didn’t have laws, or courts, or enforcement, you would have total chaos. And in the international arena, all of these component parts are very weak. The laws are uncertain and ambiguous. International courts, such as the International Court of Justice, have no independent enforcement powers. The new International Criminal Court (“ICC”) and other similar international tribunals are all part of a burgeoning evolutionary process. We live in a world that is just beginning to be put together on an international level that contains the vital component parts for a more civilized world community. Insofar as we succeed in putting the missing parts in place, the world will be more tranquil. To the extent that we don’t have those components......." Benjamin B. Ferencz, Nuremberg International Military Tribunal

wars exist


https://www.thenation.com/article/why-d ... last-year/
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Re: Adulation of military and Vets

Postby RelaxandRejuvenate on Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:15 am

holley wrote:When a dispute occurs between New York and New Jersey, there is no war.


Wow, what a spot on comparison....

We have laws against illegal immigration and courts to determine if violations of those laws occured, but little appetite from one political party to enforce these laws.
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Re: Adulation of military and Vets

Postby holley on Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:47 am

Political parties do not enforce the law, at least not in the US. At least not yet.
Neither does the military enforce the law, at least not in the US. At least not yet.
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Re: Adulation of military and Vets

Postby holley on Fri May 19, 2017 1:09 pm

The U.S. military is more powerful, less accountable and more dangerous than ever before.

"In the decades since the draft ended in 1973, a strange new military has emerged in the United States. Think of it, if you will, as a post-democratic force that prides itself on its warrior ethos rather than the old-fashioned citizen-soldier ideal. As such, it’s a military increasingly divorced from the people, with a way of life ever more foreign to most Americans (adulatory as they may feel toward its troops). Abroad, it’s now regularly put to purposes foreign to any traditional idea of national defense. In Washington, it has become a force unto itself, following its own priorities, pursuing its own agendas, increasingly unaccountable to either the president or Congress.

Three areas highlight the post-democratic transformation of this military with striking clarity: the blending of military professionals with privatized mercenaries in prosecuting unending “limited” wars; the way senior military commanders are cashing in on retirement; and finally the emergence of U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) as a quasi-missionary imperial force with a presence in at least 135 countries a year (and counting)." Full article below:






http://www.salon.com/2016/03/23/an_army ... er_before/
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Is Madison right ?

Postby holley on Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:47 pm

"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare. See full article below:

http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2013/07 ... ary/66668/
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Trump Orders National Guard to Southern Border

Postby holley on Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:20 pm

Speaking at the White House Wednesday to follow up on President Donald Trump's surprise announcement that he would order the military to help secure the southern border, Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen refused to detail the size, scope or cost of a planned deployment of National Guard troops, but said it was hoped they could be deployed "immediately" – as early as Wednesday night.http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-si ... d=54242454
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Just say no

Postby holley on Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:14 pm

Gov. Brown: 'I'll say no' if Trump orders Oregon guardsmen to Mexico border. Governors have the leeway to do so IF National Guard not Federalized. Interesting times.

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/inde ... trump.html
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