Single Payer Health Care Rally

[holley]

The form of goernment we have evolved from competing power centers (ie economic, religous, class).
Considering the undue influence of corporations, it's amazing we achieved and maintain what we have (minimum wage, unemployment benefits, the right to vote and run for office, social security, medicare, etc).

I'm disappointed single payer was not passed as a countervailing force to private insurers and troubled by the manditory requirement . I'm with Kucinitch, it's a first, imperfect step. Wearing white, mixed with gray.

[RelaxandRejuvenate]

I'm disappointed single payer was not passed....it's a first, imperfect step.

You will get your wish for Single Payer if this stands up over the next 24 months.

Mandating insurance companies take subscribers with pre-existing conditions at the same rate as healthy citizens will drive private insurers from the market -- clearly a goal of this movement. Look at MASSCare when people sign up for as long as they are sick and never pay in the premiums to support their care or that of others. MASSCare is heavily subsidized by the state - and by the Obama Admin -- and is far from deficit neutral.

compelling all citizens to acquire insurance will drive more into the arms of the government-sponsored plan as the gov't will sell at below market rates to attract subscribers and drive out private insurance competition.

All very well thought out, all very Big Gov't, all very nefarious. Once they gov't is responsible for your health care costs, they will start telling you how to live your life, all in the name of cost control/deficit reduction. "Don't eat this, don't eat that, exercise or be fined, don't grow old and sick or face the Death Panel"

But as John Dingell (D-MI) was quoted yesterday in a radio interview "The harsh fact of the matter is when you're going to pass legislation that will cover 300 million American people in different ways it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people."

At least someone is being honest about their ultimate goal!

[JLWmassage]

Looks like this is coming one state at a time

http://www.spiritofchange.org/politics/ ... in-vermont

[holley]

Let us work for it.
Thanks for posting the article, it
addresses the essential reasons for single payer. A national health care system
seems preferable due disparities between states but,until that happens, I support
all efforts towards universal medical coverage.

We'll soon have a decision by the court @ The Affordable Health Care Act....

[RelaxandRejuvenate]

We'll soon have a decision by the court @ The Affordable Health Care Act....

Maybe they should rethink the name... http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/0 ... g-workers/

[holley]

Now for the next step......universal medical coverage .

[holley]

HEALTH
Factbox: U.S. healthcare by the numbers
Thu, Jun 28 20:16 PM IST
(Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court's healthcare ruling on Thursday has far-reaching implications for a healthcare system that, according to the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, is highest in spending but just 31st in providing coverage to its people among the OECD's 34 members.

The following information ranking the United States by category against the OECD's other members comes from the November publication "Health at a Glance 2011 - OECD Indicators."

* 1st in Spending - Annual healthcare spending totals $2.6 trillion, equal to 17.9 percent of U.S. annual gross domestic product, or $8,402 for every man, woman and child.

* 1st in Good Health Self-Assessments - 90 percent of U.S. adults aged 15 and older describe themselves as being in good health versus an OECD average of 69.1 percent.

* 1st in Obesity - More than one-third of American adults are obese, up from 15 percent in 1980.

* 2nd in Prevalence of Diabetes - 10.3 percent of the U.S. population suffers from diabetes, surpassed only by Mexico's 10.8 percent. The OECD average is 6.5 percent.

* 3rd out of nine in Waiting Time for Specialists - Out of nine countries from Europe, North America and Australia and New Zealand, the United States has the third shortest waiting time for specialist appointments at 20 weeks; Germany and Switzerland had shorter waiting periods.

* 4th in Preventing Death from Stroke - The United States ranks behind Israel, Switzerland and France with 32 stroke-related deaths per 100,000 people.

* 7th in Cancer Incidence - Cancer afflicts more than 300 people per 100,000 in the United States, compared with an OECD average of 261 per 100,000.

* 9th in Preventing Death from Cancer - At 185 deaths per 100,000, the United States is well above an OECD average of 208 per 100,000.

* 10th in Number of Practicing Nurses - 10.8 per 1,000 population versus an OECD average of 8.4 per 1,000.

* 11th of 11 in Unmet Need for Care Due to Cost - The United States ranks last among 11 OECD countries in its ability to provide affordable care: 39 percent of people with below-average income and 20 percent of people with above-average income report foregoing a doctor visit or prescription because of the cost.

* 25th in Preventing Death from Heart Disease - At 129 deaths per 100,000 people, the U.S. heart disease mortality rate is below an OECD average of 117 per 100,000.

* 27th in Life Expectancy - Americans can expect to live 78.2 years on average, below the OECD average and just behind Slovenia and Chile.

* 29th in Number of Practicing Doctors - The United States has 2.4 practicing doctors per 1,000 population, placing it below an OECD average of 3.1.

* 29th in Doctor Consultations - At 3.9 annual doctor visits per capita, the United States leads only Ireland, Mexico, Sweden and Chile versus an OECD average of 6.5 percent per capita.

* 30th out of 39 in Hospital Beds - 3.1 per 1,000 population.

* 30th in Medical Graduates - 6.5 per 100,000 population, ahead of only France, Japan and Israel. The OECD average is 9.9 per 100,000 population.

* 31st in Health Coverage - An estimated 81 percent of Americans are covered by private or government health insurance, placing the country ahead of only Turkey, Mexico and Chile; 25 OECD countries cover 99 percent or more of their citizens.

* 31st out of 40 in Infant Mortality - 6.5 babies die per thousand live births in the United States, placing the country behind Poland and the Slovak Republic and below an OECD average performance of 4.4 per thousand live births.

* 31st in Preventing Premature Death - The number of years lost in the United States to premature death is surpassed only by Hungary, Mexico and Russia. The main causes are accidents, violence, cancer and circulatory disease.

The OECD was established in Europe after World War Two to promote peace through cooperation and reconstruction. Its members are Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, the United Kingdom and the United States.

(Compiled by David Morgan; Editing by Howard Goller and Will Dunham)

[holley]

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Multime ... ealth+Care

[holley]

On the House vote to repeal the Affordable Health Care Act:


"Mitt Romney said the White House wasn’t sleeping well last night.
You know who else wasn’t sleeping well?
The mother with a child who has leukemia.
The recent college grad who’s unemployed and thinking about making a doctor’s appointment.
The grandfather who isn’t sure if he’ll be able to afford the prescription medication he needs.
The middle-class family who isn’t sure if they’ll be able to keep their home if their medical bills broach the lifetime cap “Obamacare” eliminated.
What would Romney and his bravado do for each of them?
Nothing."

-Rachel Maddow

[RelaxandRejuvenate]

On the House vote to repeal the Affordable Health Care Act:


"Mitt Romney said the White House wasn’t sleeping well last night.
You know who else wasn’t sleeping well?
The mother with a child who has leukemia.

Having health insurance does not help anyone with a child with a life threatening disease sleep any better. Obamacare does not guarantee a cure but makes it less likely you will have access to one.

The recent college grad who’s unemployed and thinking about making a doctor’s appointment.

Duh...he'd have a job under Romney!

The grandfather who isn’t sure if he’ll be able to afford the prescription medication he needs.

Taken care of under Medicare Part D, passed by W

The middle-class family who isn’t sure if they’ll be able to keep their home if their medical bills broach the lifetime cap “Obamacare” eliminated..

If they had insurance, their annual deductible would have been met. If they didn't, maybe they should have cut back on cellphones and cable TV and bought insurance.

What would Romney and his bravado do for each of them?
Nothing."

-Rachel Maddow

If we could not afford to provide citizens with this up until now, why do you think we can all of a sudden afford all of this now, PLUS a government bureaucracy to adminster it?

[RelaxandRejuvenate]

What a bunch of misleading crap.

The following information ranking the United States by category against the OECD's other members comes from the November publication "Health at a Glance 2011 - OECD Indicators."

* 1st in Spending - Annual healthcare spending totals $2.6 trillion, equal to 17.9 percent of U.S. annual gross domestic product, or $8,402 for every man, woman and child.

And how much of that is driven by high-cost procedures like MRI, which many countries with Socialized medicine deny so many of their citizens. The US has 207 CT scans per 1,000 patients compared to Canada's 138, and far ahead of most other countries. http://www.canhealth.com/News927.html So you can blame high-expenditures on preventative medicine driven by CYA (which Obama refused to address by not even discussing tort reform) or you can attribute this higher cost to more patients being offered life saving treatments. Obama care addresses neither.

* 1st in Obesity - More than one-third of American adults are obese, up from 15 percent in 1980.

Obesity is most prevelanet among the poor who, who in turn are most likely on government assistance. http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/07/ ... d-poverty/

* 3rd out of nine in Waiting Time for Specialists - Out of nine countries from Europe, North America and Australia and New Zealand, the United States has the third shortest waiting time for specialist appointments at 20 weeks; Germany and Switzerland had shorter waiting periods.

Really? The Germans and Swiss are more precise/efficient than anyone else on the planet? Big shock! By all means, turn 15% of our economy upside down so we can be #1 -- but if you think putting the gov't in charge of something in which we rank 3rd will result in a higher ranking, you are out of your mind.

*

* 4th in Preventing Death from Stroke - The United States ranks behind Israel, Switzerland and France with 32 stroke-related deaths per 100,000 people.

you expect our health care system to PREVENT strokes? Should it pick lottery numbers to?

* 7th in Cancer Incidence - Cancer afflicts more than 300 people per 100,000 in the United States, compared with an OECD average of 261 per 100,000.

ditto

* 9th in Preventing Death from Cancer - At 185 deaths per 100,000, the United States is well above an OECD average of 208 per 100,000.

funny, the statistic I found says the US has better cancer Survivability rates than Canada or Europe. http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/second ... nd-canada/

Blah, blah blah...



http://www.emaxhealth.com/1506/cdc-numb ... increases* 29th in Doctor Consultations - At 3.9 annual doctor visits per capita, the United States leads only Ireland, Mexico, Sweden and Chile versus an OECD average of 6.5 percent per capita. [/quote] so you think the solution to rising health care costs is MORE doctores visits?

* 31st out of 40 in Infant Mortality - 6.5 babies die per thousand live births in the United States, placing the country behind Poland and the Slovak Republic and below an OECD average performance of 4.4 per thousand live births. [/quote} more misleading crap. he primary driver of US infant mortality is the high number of premature babies who are born in the US. "Of babies born alive, 90% survived to their first birthday" -- so a 30% mortality rate on premees vs. .65% for the general population. 1 in 8 babies in the US is premature -- so if 10% of 1/8 die in the first year, that means 90% of the infant mortality rate is driven by preemies -- which are not even counted as births in other countries.

* 31st in Preventing Premature Death - The number of years lost in the United States to premature death is surpassed only by Hungary, Mexico and Russia. The main causes are accidents, violence, cancer and circulatory disease.

The OECD was established in Europe after World War Two to promote peace through cooperation and reconstruction. Its members are Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, the United Kingdom and the United States.

(Compiled by David Morgan; Editing by Howard Goller and Will Dunham)

[/quote][/quote]

[holley]

After reading the following arguments for Universal Medical Coverage
I'd deeply appreciate hearing responses/reflections.




http://www.amsa.org/AMSA/Libraries/Comm ... .sflb.ashx

[holley]

Conservative talk radio host Rush Limbaugh said on his radio show that he will eventually leave the country if the health care bill passes and its provisions are implemented.

[pueppi]

Conservative talk radio host Rush Limbaugh said on his radio show that he will eventually leave the country if the health care bill passes and its provisions are implemented.

I am wondering what country he thinks he'll go to...

[moogie]

I had heard that he said Costa Rica but I don't know if that's true or not. Of course Costa Rica has universal healthcare.



Angie

[JaeMarie]

I wish I got a dollar every time someone stated they'd leave the country if (fill in the blank) happened.

I wish I got two for every time they didn't follow through.

[RelaxandRejuvenate]

I had heard that he said Costa Rica but I don't know if that's true or not. Of course Costa Rica has universal healthcare.



Angie

It is Costa Rica, but it is medical tourism that he is referring to. Yankees don't got to through the public health system, they use the private system in CR

"Universal care" in CR covers about the same % of the population as private insurance does in the US -- around 85%, so far from universal.

But the [i]Cadillac-style private hospitals at Chevy Aveo prices are what really draw 25,000 Americans to Costa Rica every year.

“People travel to Costa Rica (and) receive the same quality of medical services for a fraction of the cost,” said Jorge Cortés, president of the Council for International Promotion of Costa Rica Medicine and medical director of Hospital Biblica, one of three internationally-accredited private hospitals in Costa Rica. “When people see they can get the same surgery for three or four times less, they decide to get medical care abroad.”

Lower labor costs and fewer malpractice suits keep the prices down here. In Costa Rica’s private system, a teeth-cleaning might run $40 and a general check-up costs $50.[/i]
Read more at http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2010/031 ... lan-passes

[holley]

Medicare's 47th anniversary is less than a week away, and is a valuable opportunity to highlight why we still need single-payer Medicare-for-all. Coming just a month after the Supreme Court's decision to largely uphold the Affordable Care Act (ACA), July 30 is the perfect time to tell your community and legislators that only universal single-payer healthcare -- not the ACA -- will:
- Cover all necessary medical care for everyone living in the US from birth to death;
- Reduce healthcare spending by a minimum of $400 billion a year by significantly reducing administrative costs; and
- Remove for-profit insurers from the system along with their excessive profits and CEO salaries.

[holley]

WASHINGTON (AP) — States that expand their Medicaid programs under President Barack Obama's health care law may end up saving thousands of lives, a medical journal report released Wednesday indicates.
Until now, the Medicaid debate has been about budgets and states' rights. But a statistical study by Harvard researchers in the New England Journal of Medicine found a 6 percent drop in the adult death rate in Arizona, Maine and New York, three states that have recently expanded coverage for low-income residents along the general lines of the federal health care law.
The study found that for every 176 adults covered under expanded Medicaid, one death per year would be prevented.
"Policymakers should be should be aware that major changes in Medicaid — either expansions or reductions in coverage — may have significant effects on the health of vulnerable populations," wrote the researchers from the Harvard School of Public Health.
Medicaid is a federal-state program for low-income and severely disabled people. It covers about 60 million people in the United States. The new law assigned Medicaid a major role in expanding coverage, accounting for about half the 30 million uninsured people expected to gain insurance as a result of the health overhaul.
But the Supreme Court last month ruled that states have the leeway to reject the law's Medicaid expansion, which is geared to reach mostly uninsured adults without children and with annual incomes up to about $15,400. As a consequence, the Congressional Budget Office projects 3 million fewer people will gain coverage. Although the CBO still expects most states will expand their programs to some degree, the agency's nonpartisan analysts project that it may take longer than a decade for some governors and legislatures to decide.

[RelaxandRejuvenate]

So its OK to violate the Constitution so long as 1 in 176 lives are saved?

In that case, lets tap everyone's phone, torture everyone in custody -- and none of this namby-pamby waterboarding BS -- I mean really get Medieval on them, and deny women who voted for George W Bush the right to vote in the future, since their wrong-headed choice led to so many soliders and Iraqi's being killed.

[holley]

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of President Obama’s healthcare law Thursday, ruling the government may impose tax penalties on persons who do not have health insurance.

The court’s long-awaited ruling rejected a broad legal attack on the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act brought by Republican state officials and the National Federation of Independent Business.

[holley]

Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians’ Use Of Health Care Services In The United States
Steven J. Katz, Karen Cardiff, Marina Pascali, Morris L. Barer and Robert G. Evans
Abstract

To examine the extent to which Canadian residents seek medical care across the border, we collected data about Canadians’ use of services from ambulatory care facilities and hospitals located in Michigan, New York State, and Washington State during 1994–1998. We also collected information from several Canadian sources, including the 1996 National Population Health Survey, the provincial Ministries of Health, and the Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association. Results from these sources do not support the widespread perception that Canadian residents seek care extensively in the United States. Indeed, the numbers found are so small as to be barely detectible relative to the use of care by Canadians at home.

[holley]

There are two main arguments for single payer health care, also called "Medicare for All", now proposed as Congressional bill HR 676 by John Conyers and Dennis Kucinich with 91 co-sponsors.

The Moral Ethical Argument

The first is the ethical moral argument. Health insurance companies make their profit by denying health care to sick people. That is immoral and unethical.

The Economic Argument

The second and perhaps more compelling argument is economic. Our current system of health insurance has created an unbearable economic burden on the nation. Simply put, it is too expensive for us to bear. There are over 100 separate health insurance companies operating under different sets of rules creating a huge 30 % administrative overhead. For comparison, administrative overhead for Medicare is only 2%.

By converting to a single payer system, we immediately save 300 billion dollars in administrative overhead.

As a nation, we are now paying twice what other countries pay for health care, yet we have 45 million uninsured and 18,000 deaths annually caused by lack of access to health care. Almost half the bankruptcies currently filed in the United States are because of medical bills. We are paying a huge national Health Care bill, twice what other countries spend on universal health care, yet we do not have universal health coverage here in the US.

Medicare is a 40 year example of a successful single payer system which has an administrative overhead of 2%, not 30%.

Only One Explanation Why We Don't Have Single Payer Now

These two arguments in favor of a single payer heath insurance system (moral and economic) are so compelling, that one must conclude the only reason we don't have single payer now is because of lack of representative government. The obvious conclusion is that our government does not serve the people who elected them. Rather, our elected government officials serve the special interests of the health insurance industry and other corporations who make massive campaign contributions.

It’s Time to Eliminate the Health Insurance Industry

Medical Review of Claims

How does the Health Insurance Company make money? They make profits by denial of healthcare with a contrived procedure called “medical review of claims and benefits”. Much of the 30 per cent administrative overhead pays for employees doing this sham “medical review of claim” and denial. Employee pay is actually linked to the number of denials generated, and special computer software called "Denial Engine Software may be used." The variables on the software can be adjusted up or down depending on how much profit the company wants to keep that year.

Process of Denial of Medical Claim is a Pretense and Masquerade Based on Guidelines

Rather than provide needed medical care for sick people, the “review of care” is intended to deny payment for medical care. Under this "review of care" procedure, the insurance company claims that the medical claim fails "the guidelines", and this failure is the reason for the denial. How are these "Guidelines" derived? Guidelines are created by health professionals employed for the benefit of the insurance company, and have no connection with the realities of medical practice.

Manufactured Excuse for Denial of Claim

The guidelines provide a manufactured excuse for denial of care based on one of the following: The guidelines have determined that the health care is medically unnecessary, experimental, dangerous to the patient’s well-being, or outside the standards of care provided by a professional association or governmental agency. The healthcare may be denied because it uses an off-label indication (for a medicine or device). However, the real reason for denial of the claim is obvious; the claim is denied because it reduces corporate profit.

[RelaxandRejuvenate]

Once again, the liberals have it wrong

First, but not understanding the basic economics of a business. Health insurers do not make profits by denying claims.

Businesses make money by having more revenue than expenses. In the world of health care, that can different ways

1) Have fewer claims -- your customers can be healthier than the average, you can offer free/low cost wellness or preventative care to avoid higher usage in the future, you can deny claims. Liberals only focus on the last because they want to demonize profits and insurance companies

2) You can reduce the costs of your inputs -- by negotiating lower rates for services with doctors and labs, you can have the same # of claims but have profits increase since the cost of those claims go down

Secondly, liberals see government intrusion/control as the answer to every problem, when they usually make things worse. Take medical insurance claim denials

"According to the American Medical Association’s 2008 Health Insurance Report Card , the health insurer that denies the most claims is Medicare" http://www.patientpowernow.org/2009/10/ ... st-claims/

So if we are to believe Holley and the rest of the "free gov't health care" crowd that private insurance denies claims based on their profit motive, what is the government's motive for denying claims at a higher rate than evil private insurers? If not profit, then out of spite, meanness, stupidity, why isn't the benevolent government providing everyone on Medicare with every single procedure, pill or need without question or regard to cost?

[holley]

"The pool of people covered by Medicare is basically everyone in this country 65 years old and up. In other words, it’s the oldest, sickest, most expensive group of people to insure.

It’s likely that the overwhelming majority of claims rejected for coverage by Medicare would similarly be rejected by most private insurers, experimental treatments for terminal conditions, expensive end of life care with marginal benefit to the patient, etc. It’s just that people covered by Medicare make more of these types of claims as a percentage of the total number of claims submitted.

Percentage of claims rejected doesn’t really tell you much without knowing the makeup of the risk pool and the types and numbers of claims rejected and accepted."

Also (according to Daily Kos):

1) Private Health Insurers (PHI) deny people that want to buy health insurance, but have a pre-existing condition, in other words they cherry pick the healthy while medicare covers you no matter what. These people aren't accounted for in the statistics.

2)The numbers are simply bull manure!

Researchers from the California Nurses Association/National Nurses Organizing Committee analyzed data reported by the insurers to the California Department of Managed Care. From 2002 through June 30, 2009, the six insurers rejected 45.7 million claims -- 22 percent of all claims.

For the first half of 2009, as the national debate over healthcare reform was escalating, the rejection rates are even more striking.

Claims denial rates by leading California insurers, first six months of 2009:

• PacifiCare -- 39.6 percent
• Cigna -- 32.7 percent
• HealthNet -- 30 percent
• Kaiser Permanente -- 28.3 percent
• Blue Cross -- 27.9 percent
• Aetna -- 6.4 percent


AMA's statistics don't account for the fact that PHI's often drop people when they get sick and if they drop you, you are no longer one of their customers that can be denied.

Let me put it this way.

Let's say a PHI starts with a million customers in January and ten thousand claims are filed over the course of the year. Five thousand of those customers who filed a claim promptly have their coverage dropped.

The statistics don't include these people so in reality PHI's deny a far larger percentage of customers.

They just do much of it by dropping coverage entirely.

In conclusion California Department's numbers >>>>> AMA's