Information on client loss/retention when moving?

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Breathe
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Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by Breathe » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:29 pm

My building has received advance notice that our ridiculous mayor is attempting to exercise Eminent Domain on our (very nice, very large) office building in order to build himself a fancy new ballpark.

I need information on client attrition due to moving. I recall an article, or published statistics on this sort of thing, from several years ago, but have no idea where to begin looking. Does anyone else have that? I've already checked ABMP, but either I'm having a search hiccup, or they don't have the info I'm after.

There is a city council meeting sometime soon, and I will be there (in addition to many others in the building,) to make our protest of the damage this will do to our small businesses if we are forced to relocate.

I'm hoping to have a study or two that will show that it's not a simple matter of picking up and moving site and all will be "okay," but that this will create a serious hardship.

By the way, there are 11-12 MTs in this building that will be affected if this gets rammed through City Council.
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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by RelaxandRejuvenate » Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:15 am

Breathe wrote:
By the way, there are 11-12 MTs in this building that will be affected if this gets rammed through City Council.
Ramming legislation through is never a good thing. At least the eminent domain bill is not 1,000+ unread pages.
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Breathe
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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by Breathe » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:39 am

RelaxandRejuvenate wrote:
Ramming legislation through is never a good thing.
True.
At least the eminent domain bill is not 1,000+ unread pages.
Do you actually have anything to say about THIS issue, or are you just going to soapbox through the whole forum whether or not it's related. I've kept out of your HC thread, it's not inappropriate to ask that you keep your HC thread out of this discussion.
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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by pueppi » Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:48 pm

Breathe,

I don't have time to write - right now, but I did have client attrition when I moved. It may take me a week or two to get you a succinct post... but you could try to go back through some of my "old" posts under my "old" name (I figure you know what it was) and see if I ever wrote anything about that, until I can get back to you.

Just want you to know I read this and will try to follow up when I get time to write something that makes sense.

I'll also try to do some poking around for that article you are looking for and see if I can come up with something.
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, leading to the most amazing view. May your rivers flow without end, meandering through valleys tinkling with bells...
Houston Massage Therapy - Advanced Massage Therapy - Lucas & Lucas, LLC

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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by pueppi » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:30 am

I found a website that may be of some help... located in the UK -- and I am thinking you may be able to re-vamp that statement into "clients" willing to move with you. I googled: "business relocation attrition" without the parenthesis.

http://www.business-moves.com/relocatio ... opment.htm
Attrition Forecasting
Most business relocation projects result in at least some employees being unwilling or unable to move to the new location – and of course the more that fall into this category the more serious and costly it will be for the employer.

'Attrition analysis' is a methodology we use to assess the probable number of staff who will not relocate. A wide range of criteria are considered in determining the likely numbers. The results are then fed into a modelling process to estimate the number of staff who will need to be (a) relocated, (b) recruited or (c) made redundant.

The resulting estimates are then used to calculate the likely employee related costs the employer will need to consider should they decide to relocate. The data produced can also be used to help us design the most cost effective staff relocation policy to fulfil the changed needs of the employer at the new location.
There are a number of other sites in that might be helpful to you. I don't know for sure.

It's been a little over ten years since I moved my office, and I may be high on the numbers, but I believe I lost at least 50-60% of my business. The move was less than a mile. Granted we've got lots of traffic in our cityand I had to move to another space which was about 5 miles from the original and new office -- for about a month while build-out was happening. Also, most of that business was not massage. You can PM me about that if you like. I'll also go on a search of this site (most likely tomorrow) to try to find anything I may have written about it and PM you that too.

As a side note: You may like this, if you end up needing to "re-activate" clients due to a move: The Importance of Reactivating Clients

BTW, I have been trying to find that article you speak of, and have also been googling things like "massage therapy relocation article", "massage therapy relocation loss of clients", massage therapy relocation statistics" and massage business relocation attrition" without luck. :(

If you happen to find something, would you also add it here. I think it would be a great bit of info that we obviously haven't added to BWOL up to this point.

Sorry, this is pretty scattered, but you get the idea. My life is a bit crazy right now and concentration is low. :lipsaresealed:
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, leading to the most amazing view. May your rivers flow without end, meandering through valleys tinkling with bells...
Houston Massage Therapy - Advanced Massage Therapy - Lucas & Lucas, LLC

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Breathe
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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by Breathe » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:41 am

Thanks so much for this, and also for trying. I've been looking and can't find the information I need. Mayor D- is pushing ahead with this project, has already dumped $100k into just the legal counsel he needs to allow him to steal our building. The really pathetic thing is that there are two other sites that have been offered up, within 1/2 mile of our building, on transit, that would not displace 65 business owners and 200 employees, or take down a perfectly good office complex.

I'm very frustrated.
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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by JasonE » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:22 pm

Breathe -

Sorry to hear about your predicament. At least you have advance warning and a little time to prepare.

Consider where your clients come from, geographically. How many (%) live within 1 mile, 2 miles, 3 miles, etcetera? How many work within those distances? Most MTs and MT businesses that I am familiar with get the majority of their clients from a radius of 2-5 miles. Any location change will dramatically impact the mix of clients that will stay or go. The new location will (usually) have unproven potential that you can't count on, and your expenses will increase both before and after the move as you try to educate existing clients on the upcoming change, then hold their hands during the transition, and market your new location to old clients and build awareness to attract new clients. You will spend more on marketing, probably have to give more discounts/incentives, and possibly change your rates.

You can generate reasonable estimates of what it would cost to find a comparable space at alternative locations, including deposits, rent, buildout costs, moving expenses, etc. You can also generate reasonable estimates of how much income you'd lose during the transition and the 6 months following as you attempted to rebuild your clientele. It'll be a pain in the tush, but it may help to have some hard numbers. Encourage the other MTs and businesses in your building to do the same.

Some questions to raise: Why your building when these other locations have been offered? What would make one of these other locations as attractive? In an economic downturn, why put so many small businesses in jeopardy when acceptable alternatives exist?

No doubt you'll see a new ballpark. What mayor could resist? If your building has a great geographical/scenic advantage, that may be all it takes to put it head-and-shoulders above the alternatives that were offered. The amount of potential revenue generated by a new ballpark probably dwarfs the total numbers currently generated by your building's residents, and that would provide the necessary financial incentive for them to go ahead as planned. It's even possible that part of the ballpark deal is contingent upon the specific location. If things start looking hopeless, you may need to seek some compensation for the very real damage that will be done to your business.

My sympathies are with you. We fought against building new ballparks and stadiums for years, and now we're getting three of the damn things at once. :smt013
Jason Erickson, NCTMB, ACE-CPT, AIS-TA
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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by pueppi » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:42 am

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, leading to the most amazing view. May your rivers flow without end, meandering through valleys tinkling with bells...
Houston Massage Therapy - Advanced Massage Therapy - Lucas & Lucas, LLC

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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by AnastasiaB » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:55 am

One thing that I found, personally, to have a detrimental effect on client retention is lack of an "on the 'main drag' line of sight" for the business being moved. First move my practice made was only 2 1/2 blocks and still in the center of this small town's "downtown business district". Because my practice signage wasn't visible from the "main drag" I lost about 1/3 of my clientele when I moved that tiny distance. Traffic flow is also important as to whether or not your clients stick around. If they have to turn too many corners, hunt for parking, etc. you will lose some of them... found that out as well during the first move. How do I know that's what caused the decline in "attendance"? I sent out postcards asking for input on the problems they might be having with the new location.

Perhaps looking at the negative effects like that will also give you and the others in the building some other information as to how the proposed land grab will negatively impact your businesses and the income of the area... loss of revenue to other businesses because the folks aren't going to be parking, eating, drinking, etc in that area any longer. It will hurt more than just your building...

fwiw
Anastasia B

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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by Breathe » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:31 pm

Update, the hearing is tonight. This hearing won't determine the outcome, but it does give us a chance to have our say. This is my letter:

To Whom It May Concern:

I am writing to express dismay over the prospective condemnation of my workplace.

For nearly 5 years, I've been a satisfied tenant of BG Plaza, running a successful Orthopedic Massage practice, providing licensed massage therapy for people with chronic pain, injuries and those who wish to improve their athletic performance. When I started, I had a license, and an office suite, and no clients. During the time in this location, my practice has expanded, until I am operating at capacity, with yearly income potential of around $xx,xxx/year.

This location has been critical to that success, as it is easy to find, is on Trimet, and offers parking, handicapped access, and a quiet and private location. The building is also well maintained, which contributes to my clients' feeling of well-being and safety.

I chose this location because the Biggi family and their employees are there to offer practical assistance and moral support to their tenants, in their endeavors to establish successful small enterprises in the community. They have a strong commitment to entrepreneurial pursuits, which has been invaluable to me as a small business owner, in this increasingly tumultuous economy. I needed a location that I could access on Trimet, because I do not drive. The space had to be of an adequate size for movement-based therapies, as well as affordable for a new business owner. I needed handicapped access, as some of my clients are by referral from physicians, and these clients may have physical limitations. I needed a full-service lease, because to a start-up, fixed costs help with financial projections. Finally, I needed friendly building neighbors who could be there in the event of difficulties, since I would be practicing alone for an indeterminate amount of time.

BG Plaza provided on all counts. In addition, because of other long-term and stable tenants in the building, I have been able to draw upon the rich experience of many other successful small business owners.


When it was announced that our building was on the short list for condemnation, so that a ballpark could be built, I was shocked and appalled. Our building provides so much to this community. There are dozens of businesses, and hundreds of users in this location. The Biggis’ have been diligent in maintaining the Plaza and providing full-time maintenance support.

I started calculating the cost of relocation, looking for potential space, and weighing my basic needs. I discovered that relocation would involve much more than just moving my things somewhere else. Finding appropriate space for my particular kind of practice proves difficult. The cost of the space I would need is currently significantly higher than what I am paying. There is very little available that is in the price range I currently pay, handicapped accessible, and on public transit lines, and in this general area. As of this date, I have been unable to find anything that meets all four criteria.

I spoke with other business owners in my field, who pointed out that a very high percentage of clients are lost due to moving. Even a move of just a few blocks can impact client retention due to disruption in schedules, or simple location preferences. One therapist I spoke with, who has a practice similar to mine, experienced a 40% loss in clientele, due to a move of one block. She also indicated that she had nearly 2 weeks of "downtime" because of the time it took to ready the new space, and move into it.

I was also reminded that any move means considerable extra time and expense for a small business owner, needing new business cards, letterhead, envelopes, web developer fees to change all of the information, as well as hundreds of dollars spent in mailings to notify all current and past clients of changes. In addition, much time and expense is involved in developing new client contacts, which would be necessary following a move. A move could potentially cost my business many thousands of dollars.

These are just a few of my concerns regarding the impact to me personally if the Mayor and Mr. Poulson get their Eminent Domain and condemn our wonderful building and community. Frankly, I do not understand how this can even be up for consideration, in this economy. Please consider the hardships this will be creating for the many business owners and employees who earn their living in the BG Plaza. These are people who are contributing to the local economy in many ways, not just through their income tax.

We shop and eat at local stores and restaurants, we purchase daily or monthly passes for Trimet, we bring clients and customers into this area that also shop and dine at local businesses.

All other Plaza-related considerations aside, I am told that this attempt to take our property has not been appropriately preceded by any feasibility studies, financial plans, traffic surveys, etc. Any private market business proposal is expected to do due diligence before acquiring the financing and the property. Why is the city, and Mr. Poulson, allowed less than that?

Where is the evidence that this will work better for our town than the vast majority of towns whose minor league teams survive in a new location for less than 5 years? Why is the city, in this economy, considering displacing hundreds of business owners and employees for a ball-park that will, at best provide year round employment for only a couple of dozen individuals?

Why is all of the preliminary talk around this ballpark ignoring the poor results of economic impact studies that assume that all tickets will be sold to non-residents, but show that taxes for locals will be increased, that inflation is rising and employment is falling, that minor league teams historically fail miserably to fill stadiums, and few people will drive long distances (particularly in rush hour) for a minor league game?

Let's not even talk about the traffic impact, (for which, again, I will point out there have been no surveys,) and the fact that both the roads AND public transportation are already extremely congested during the exact time that more cars and people would be coming into the area for ballgames.

The City of Beaverton intends to pour millions of dollars into this project. Why is city government providing a stadium for sports teams and not providing classrooms and teachers at a time when the Beaverton School District has announced shortfalls of up to $17 million dollars? Is the entertainment of a couple of thousand local sports fans more important than teaching our kids how to read and write, and providing adequate healthcare policies for our teachers?

I believe that condemning BG Plaza is not in the best interests of our community. I am skeptical of the value of building a ballpark at all in this community, right now, with this shaky economy. But to force the relocation of dozens of businesses to do so, without even a viable economic study, is irresponsible and reprehensible. Please, do not allow this to happen. Please, if the project proceeds, choose land that is not currently in use. Please do not exercise Eminent Domain on a gainful and operational property. I believe the prevention of such an action is exactly what voters for Measure 39 intended to prevent.

Thank you for your consideration,

Stacey H------, LMT
Owner, Breathe Bodywork
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elsewhere
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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by elsewhere » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:41 pm

Great letter, you have a gift for making cogent points with total clarity.

I sure hope they hear you.

Best of luck my friend.

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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by mtnlionz » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:10 pm

I agree, and hope they hear you, too.

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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by pueppi » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:49 pm

Wow! What an inmpressive letter.

Thank you for adding it here for future reference, in case something like this happens to someone else.

My mom (who I am visiting and reading this to, this evening) says she wishes she could have had you write her letter to Walmart, when she found out they were removing their fabric department.
:smt038
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Houston Massage Therapy - Advanced Massage Therapy - Lucas & Lucas, LLC

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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by palpable » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:08 pm

Great job, Breathe.

Best of luck to you. :smt023
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Breathe
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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by Breathe » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:43 pm

Thanks, the preliminary hearing was tonight. More than 20 people spoke to ask the city council to reject condemning our building. This family has an excellent track record of contributing to the community in many ways. They have allowed community outreach programs to use their facilities on many occasions, for very low cost, sometimes no cost. I think the council members were impressed with the devotion and loyalty of the tenants to this family and their property. About 25% of the buildings' lessors were there to speak on behalf of the property - an excellent turnout considering how little notice we had.

Now it remains to be seen whether they heard us, and intend to help us by not seizing the property. I hope it worked.
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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by sjidoulamt » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:21 am

I hope so too. Keeping my fingers crossed for you and your fellow tenants...

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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by RelaxandRejuvenate » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:43 pm

Breathe wrote:
Do you actually have anything to say about THIS issue, or are you just going to soapbox through the whole forum whether or not it's related. I've kept out of your HC thread, it's not inappropriate to ask that you keep your HC thread out of this discussion.
My point was, you have something manageable and digestable. This is something both sides of the issue can get their hands and heads around and understand, as you clearly have been able to do with your letter. "Unreasonable seizure" is a fundamental principle of our Constitution and people get bent over it because they can see it happening to them someday.

Unfortunately, gov't lawyers have successfully used ED in every corner of the land. the question is not WHETHER the land is seized under ED, but WHOSE land gets seized. They are going to build this stadium -- is it your landlord that bears the brunt or some other building owner or the parkland that the kids frequent?

Someone will lose their land. Usually the one with the worst lobbyist or quietest voice or least sympathetic story.
Smithers: "Sir, I'm afraid we have a bad image, people see you as a bit of an ogre." Mr.Burns: "I ought to club them and eat their bones!"

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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by Breathe » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:32 pm

Edited because you, R&R, are not worth my time, or the pixels I have wasted on this post.
Last edited by Breathe on Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by sjidoulamt » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:39 pm

Sigh. R&R, how's that poll coming?

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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by RelaxandRejuvenate » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:34 pm

Breathe wrote:Edited because you, R&R, are not worth my time, or the pixels I have wasted on this post.
Who do I write in support of the stadium? This is EXACTLY the type of shovel-ready, infrastructure project touted in the $700B stimulus bill that I opposed.

What was I thinking?

Think of all the moving companies that will benefit from hauling the goods of these businesses to their new locations?
The printers that will make new business, stationary, etc.
The gas station owners doing more business as your clients wander around town trying to find your new location

PRojects like this are exactly what will get America back on its feet again.

Gee...it really sucks when the duly-elected ram through something that you don't like because you will have your business disrupted/income decreased because of it. But hey, get over it. that is what everyone here keeps telling me to do. Do you fair share, be patriotic and live with the consequences of the Beaverton mayoral election.
Smithers: "Sir, I'm afraid we have a bad image, people see you as a bit of an ogre." Mr.Burns: "I ought to club them and eat their bones!"

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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by palpable » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:25 am

RelaxandRejuvenate wrote:
Who do I write in support of the stadium? This is EXACTLY the type of shovel-ready, infrastructure project touted in the $700B stimulus bill that I opposed.
Seriously?! That is a really low blow, and completely uncalled for.

If you'll notice, Breathe mentioned that other sites have been OFFERED. The powers that be just want THAT one. And PLEASE will you stop blaming every gd thing on Obama and the Dems. This kind of crap happens no matter who is in office...
Move on as quickly as you can to people who get you and what you do. -Robert Chute

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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by Breathe » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:42 am

BTW, this is NOT a stimulus project. It's one rich REPUBLICAN (if you want to get political) teaming up with other rich republicans, to bring a stadium to a town of 86k, at the cost of $100M, (for the facilities and proposed parking structure,) paid for almost entirely by property taxes, which will have to be raised to the ceiling, and will take close to 3 decades to pay for, IF nothing goes wrong. (We are not a sales tax state.)

So let's see... politics: Republican. check
money: Higher taxes. check
jobs: 65 small businesses severely impacted, hundreds of employees relocated or laid off, a very large civic organization turned out of very reasonable and accomodating space, 6 volunteer and donation supported non-profits turned out onto the street. Check.
property: One unwilling seller (family) who wishes to hold onto their property that has been in their family for 100 years. Check.

Peoples' true colors come out, not once, but repeatedly. This is not the first time R&R has made an implicit or outright threat against a board user's livelihood. Why should anyone be surprised when it happens again?
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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by Rose of Sharon » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:47 am

palpable wrote:
RelaxandRejuvenate wrote:
Who do I write in support of the stadium? This is EXACTLY the type of shovel-ready, infrastructure project touted in the $700B stimulus bill that I opposed.
Seriously?! That is a really low blow, and completely uncalled for.
palpable wrote: you'll notice, Breathe mentioned that other sites have been OFFERED. The powers that be just want THAT one. And PLEASE will you stop blaming every gd thing on Obama and the Dems. This kind of crap happens no matter who is in office...
Agreed. BOTH parties are very guilty in ED and in raising taxes. Both are totally arrogant and don't care who gets hurt in their power grabs. There is no excuse for it. Even if it WOULD pull in more money than it cost, ED is wrong on every level.
Sharon

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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by BJB-LMP » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:43 am

RelaxandRejuvenate wrote:Who do I write in support of the stadium?
Who do I write to to get this abusive person off this board once and for all?
-Beccy

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Re: Information on client loss/retention when moving?

Post by JasonE » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:04 pm

Oh, leave off it. R&R brings a valuable business perspective to BWOL, and he has often provided very good information to members in need.

R&R and Breathe haven't been on good terms since before I joined, so why expect any change now? Besides, it is clear that his attack is against certain political policies/programs, not her business.
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